General Trans Thread Part 3

[mamamea]

www.adn.com/sports/2016/05/27/at-alaska-state-track-meet-a-transgender-athlete-makes-her-mark/

"Wangyot posted the third-fastest time in the 200 preliminaries and the fifth-fastest time in the 100 preliminaries. The top eight runners advanced to Saturday's finals."

So Wangyot knocked out two girls from their place in the finals.

I can't follow what point you're making Bumble, because you're responding to a point which was taken from a website, which took it from a thread (from which it was deleted) which was about trans rights in general on an abortion group's facebook.

It wasn't at any point responding to the issue of trans men and abortion.

The link you've posted isn't the article that the post was made in response to.

I got mixed up, apologies.

I'm confused. Did they not just share an article about trans health care issues in general? I don't think it said anywhere that transwomen need abortions? Or are asking for them? Although I get why people don't think it should be what they're focused on. Which isn't to say (female) transmen don't sometimes get pregnant.

It's fortunate that we have you here sixpence, to consistently re-iterate what genderist arguments are, just in case anyone forgets.

I'm trying to work out what everyone's talking about almond - I'm confused as are you about Bumbledumb's point. But I now see she is also confused.

This stuff around abortion is happening here too. I've seen it on Twitter. Trans activists calling for abortion campaigners to talk about "people with wombs".
Yes, of course it's possible that a transman who hasn't had surgical gender reassignment could get pregnant, but are we seriously going to stop using the word "woman" and deny the experiences of 50% of the population just so a teeny minority of people who are biologically women (but happen to be unhappy about that fact) don't feel left out or awkward?

This issue really, really pisses me off actually. The fight for abortion rights just seems so emblematic of the feminist movement and gains women have made over the decades arguing for automony over our bodies and reproductive choices. For all that to be shat on by a handful of people intent on pushing the boundaries of identity politics just fills me with rage. It's navel gazing. Meanwhile in the real world, women and girls are being imprisoned for miscarrying in some countries and being left to die in hospital because of draconian abortion laws as close to home as Ireland.
So as well as fighting for women's right to choose, we now have to fight numpties who challenge our right to even use the word woman to describe ourselves.

www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-intersex-athletes-and-the-problem-of-testosterone-1.2677419?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Fsonia-o-sullivan-intersex-athletes-and-the-problem-of-testosterone-1.2677419

Sonia sticks up for female athletes. Although I think she's conflating intersex with trans.

I'm not subscribed and can't be bothered creating an account *shins". Is it about trans athletes or more about intersex? What's this spanner in the works?

I don't venture onto twitter much Where - how do people usually respond? Are people used to it?

This shit makes me so angry - it's happening in plain view and we are still branded hateful transphobes for saying that men aren't women

Has anyone seen this yet?

[https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/06/08/female-erasure-what-you-need-to-know-about-gender-politics-war-on-women-the-female-sex-and-human-rights/]

[https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/female-erasure--2#/]

It has plenty of well known rad fem contributors (Germaine Greer does the introduction or foreword I think, Sheila Jeffreys, Eliabeth Hungerford, Gallus Mag, Lierre Kieth, Suzanne Gray...) but the main author/editor seems to be an "ordained elder Priestess, seasoned ritualist," and an "award winning pioneering goddess-centered folk musician, mountain dulcimer artist" amongst other things. Which makes me immediately slightly suspicious! What are everyone's thoughts?

I have just signed up for a Kindle version of Female Erasure. So what if the editor is a hippy? At least someone has the courage to talk about what is happening, despite the inevitable backlash.

www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-intersex-athletes-and-the-problem-of-testosterone-1.2677419

You don't need to register, my original link didn't work because I'd exceeded the weekly allowance of 10 articles. She's writing about the problems associated with the relaxation of the rules for participants in female sporting events, opening them up not just to those with rare genetic conditions like Caster Semenya but anyone who wants to call themselves a woman really.

As a former world star of women's athletics, O'Sullivan is very well qualified to see the great danger to women's sports. I hope people listen to her.

The main author/editor seems to be an "ordained elder Priestess, seasoned ritualist," and an "award winning pioneering goddess-centered folk musician, mountain dulcimer artist" amongst other things. Which makes me immediately slightly suspicious! What are everyone's thoughts?

Being an "ordained elder Priestess" may sound wacky to an atheist, but it's not ethically wrong, and from my point of view it is not more wacky than being a Christian priest or preacher, so there is that.

To me, believing in an unprovable goddess whose non-existence can't be proven likewise, is several levels saner than believing that men are women (which obviously contradicts the reality before our eyes). I've always found atheist genderists to be the height of irony.

I'll contribute if/when I have some money to spare. Would like to get the ebook version.

I didn't mean to imply there was anything morally dubious about the editor. And I have no issue with wacky people. I suppose it just seems unusual for a book that contains the writings of many academics but I agree, it's great that people are speaking out, and to be applauded when they are brave enough to do so using their real names and identities.

Thanks shins - I'll go and have a look.

It's a good article. I saw a similar one somewhere else, ostensibly about intersex and transgender issues but focusing mostly on the intersex issue. I wonder if that's due to concerns about possible accusations of transphobia or if it's just that several intersex athletes are quite high profile at the moment? Do we know if there will be any transgender athletes at the Olympics?

The book represents a wide range of feminists - academics, grass roots campaigners and so on.

Spiritual women with a focus on the environment and female experiences have always been a big part of the feminist movement. They create lots of gatherings, art and music.

I don't think there is anything odd about it.

There seems to be more of a focus on intersex, but the recent Olympics Committee ruling opened the playing field to a truly scary extent - anyone can take hormones for a year after all. That Wangyot story really angered me - he is clearly a young man with a penis and no breasts no matter how long he grows his hair, how dare he take places away from girls? I suppose I feel particularly strongly about the sports issue because my daughter is a very talented budding athlete who runs twice as fast as girls her age. She's very competitive and has a lot of ambitions - I can't bear to think that she might be running against boys in a few years, it would crush her.

How old is your DD shins? I would feel the same if I had a child in that situation. But I think it at least makes people question what's going on.
Who knows where we'll be in 10 years time. Maybe gender fluid people will be able to compete in both the male and female categories and it will be the same people in both races? No women in sports at all :(.

On another note, I have been reading the blogs and writings of a few gender critical trans people and found transy wansy's. She is a young transwoman who writes very well and is very pro-woman but struggling with the way she feels she is being treated over her plans to have surgery, by people in the feminist community. She is angry about how she has stuck up for women, many of whom are now telling her or implying that surgery will be self mutilation and self hatred. This just makes me so sad. Surely feminists should support everyone's right to bodily autonomy? Surgery can and does work for many people who have body dysphoria and many go on to live happy lives after surgery. She has clearly thought things through and is intelligent and self aware. Of course it might turn out to be the wrong decision, there is that risk with everything but I am sad that she feels she has been shown so little kindness and support. Does anyone else think some feminists could do with being less judgmental about the decisions of transwomen when it comes to their own bodies? I know transwomen are male and not a radical feminist's primary concern but when these people are our allies should we maybe get behind their decisions, whether or not we thing they're right or wrong? I'm guessing some on here are always against reassignment surgery?

Sixpence, I'm really uncomfortable with the way you keep asking posters for personal information.

How is knowing someone's daughter's age personal information almond? Whatever age she is there will be several million other girls the same age and the OP can give an age that's out by a year or two if she wants, most people on here do that to protect their identity or else they can just say they'd rather not give it at all. Any other information I've asked for has just been to get more of a context to what a poster has been saying and other people have chimed in to say they understand why I've asked. But I'll stop asking anything "personal" if it's worrying other people too?

It isn't any one individual question, Sixpence.

It is the cumulative impact of you asking where posters live, if they are on Twitter and who they interact with there, if they are in a FB group, where else on the Internet do they talk about things, which one, can you join the same one and so on.

Coupled with you referring to gender critical posters as 'we' to new posters, as if you're one, which I think is misleading when you are blatantly pro genderism.