I'm giving up.

[GarlicShake]

This is more of a despairing rant than an invitation to reply. Sorry! I feel like I've nowhere else to put it.

I am 61 years old. I'm facing ageism & ableism as well as sexism. I have a corner to fight.

I went on strike for maternity rights, for equal pay, even for the factory to have a women's toilet. I forged a career in a world that was predominantly male, argued for my pay rises and trained younger people up to be non-sexist. I've been blamed and misconstrued, beaten up, raped, and carefully answered the gamut of sexist assumptions. I battled for my pension rights and I threatened the bank with legal action when they refused to take my salary into account on my first mortgage. I am still fighting.

But I just can't hack fighting for younger women any more. They're throwing away all that we, and the two generations before and the one after mine, won for them. I can't even tell whether they don't give a shit or they think all their rights are safe so they needn't bother.

I'm not going to argue the transgender thing any more. I'll stick to supporting the handful of FB friends who get it, but I'm not arguing in my own voice from now. I'm giving up on explaining why "Ms" matters - it's been around for 50 years, for crying out loud! People can figure out why the Nordic model's a better idea for themselves - or, most likely, not. Women can congratulate themselves on being financially dependent on husbands, and figure that out for themselves too.

And I think this country's going to vote itself out of Europe. That'll wake a few people up in short order, I fear, but I shall be needed to stick up for older & disabled people like me as our rights will get shredded. I am tired.

I am very tired and disappointed. Thank you for all the brilliant discussions, MN feminists! Good luck.

olivia, feminism isn't some club that wants to have as many members as possible. Feminism is a political movement that has goals.

It would be idiotic for feminism to become more pro-porn and pro-prostitution and whatever in order to become more popular.

This is really basic, and really obvious, and in fact, if you continue to write such ignorant nonsense, I will feel tempted to report you as troll. I have no idea what, as a patriarchy-denier, you are even doing in the feminist forums on here.

It's about as nonsensical as coming to a Greenpeace meeting to try and convince people that man-made climate change is a myth ... or rather, that man-made pollution, climate change, nuclear catastrophes and the extinction of animals are all invented and Greenpeace should promote the notion that extinct animal species all committed suicide, in order to become more popular and gain more members.

Seriously. Why are you even here?

I don't know Micah - I find myself hesitating over all that a bit. And I find the general view on MN to tend towards encouraging individuality in our dds and not giving in to the prettifying, princessification or 'sexualised' dressing of young girls

. Dd (10) is a fully paid-up member of the geek squad - both in style and interests. I have gently encouraged her natural tendencies in that direction, partly because the sight of some of her peers in make-up and revealing clothes gives me the heebie-jeebies. But then I question my motives - surely judging them on their appearance makes me just as bad as those who would negatively judge dd on hers? Sorting out what makes them dress that way or to what extent it is their own real choice seems a bit tricky. And I do worry about dd being bullied for being different when she starts secondary school. I clearly have a lot still to learn from the feminist boards.

For something you hold to be so boring and wrong and unpopular, you do seem to find feminism very inspiring, Olivia. You're all over the feminist board. Careful, you might catch it!

On this thread, though, I think you need to stop. Grown ups are talking. Shoosh now.

OP, I totally know what you mean about the tiredness of the fight. I hope you feel re-energised soon, we are far from done and there's loads still to achieve and celebrate.

Oh, I forgot. I have never had a feminist make me feel small for my choices in life. I am not currently living in a way that is compatible with my feminist beliefs (not working), and it's tough, but the only person being hard on me about that is me.

I have no idea where these mythical dragon feminists who tear the heads off SAHMs are. Not here.

Having recently had a short argument with a young woman on FB recently I feel a bit the same as the OP...
It was about a really awful meme that was posted on a local board about single mothers (I think there was a post on AIBU at about the same time showing it). Her premise was that single mothers were at fault for - and I quote "getting themselves pregnant".
I'm not an argumentative type really but it got my back up and I challenged her. Her reply was basically that as feminism has given women the pill, women have more contraception choices and therefore the man cannot be held responsible for any pregnancy. This is a young woman in her early twenties with a child of her own. There were other posters liking her comments, mostly women. I tried to argue the point, gave up in the end.
I'm 40, raised by feminist parents, I work from home raising boys and girls and I swear my 4 year old has more of a basic grasp of equality than some adults.

Grimbletart and others, I do see where you are coming from but as I asked in my PP and I think some others have said also - Why are the younger generation's behaviour to blame when we live in a society warped by stardom, looks, money and sex?

Something has gone wrong and the younger generation don't know any better. I never learnt anything about women's rights and the struggle in school and I'm 30. I'm not suprised the younger are oblivious. I was fortunate to be raised by two lesbians who always pointed out inequalities but were careful not to tar all men with the same brush because actually there are a large proportion of men that are raised correctly.

The media are perpetuating this unhealthy image of women and unfortunately many of our younger people do not have parents like you or Garlick.

Surely our energy should be focused on media outlets and not being frustrated at the ignorant. They need pity (and teaching!)

An example of someone trying to make a change at the following link:

petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/66641

The deadline had passed and the amount of signatures are pitiful. Social media is a powerful tool, perhaps change of how the media portray women and men is possible, if enough people petitioned.

I think social media is a major part of the problem. It's mainly used by young people who are bombarded by images and opinions that can be shared instantly - the meme I mentioned was put on the page by a man for a wind up but it was almost immediately shared and liked dozens of times. Then the opinions started to come in and within minutes there are half a dozen furious debates going on. The post got deleted eventually but the ideas that might not have even occurred to some people were out there, people who shared opinions (on both sides of the debate) could identify each other.
The offensive JK type idea that came from one pic was seen by hundreds of people in about an hour due to one social media site.

Sorry to ruin the party VestalVirgin. Is this thread only open to those who share your views then?

Yes It's a subject that I have a stake in and interests me, so I'm apt to contribute. Sorry that's public forums for you Freshwater..

The latest poll I saw 70% of women rejected the term. So what's going wrong I'm wondering? . They're cant all be just complacent air heads who dont know their born, and need saving from themselves. by the intellectually 'higher born'?
I believe it because feminism today is perceived in the popular mind as a lot of hard line, left-wing , male-bashing, eccentrics, high on grievance and victimology.

Pro -porn and prostitution ? Not necessarily, but something needs to be done so that women here in the U.K can feel that feminism represents them. I believe we need both the radical and the moderate schools of thought. Things and people work best when they put their minds together, but sadly today the moderate voices get shouted down, get called trolls and told to piss off and find another thread etc etc... All we seem to have is the eccentrics being rude to those who disagree with them. meanwhile its feminism itself that suffering.

Peyia, are you sure that link is the petition you meant? Stop Inappropriate Social Media Content?

I don't see how it relates to feminism, or lack of awareness. To be honest, even if I had been aware of it, I still wouldn't have signed it because there are few things more cancerous in our society today than censorship on grounds of perceived offence.

CrazyCatDad You're right, it's not directly linked to feminism (although to me, feminism is about humanity in general as that is always indirectly linked to women) but an example of an individual taking action on something they deemed wrong/unfair. I should have made that clear.

Olivia - re "the big issue here, that being: why feminism is increasingly unpopular?"

Any stats to back that up?

Quite the contrary, feminism is increasingly popular at least here on MN. Many of us (e.g. yours truly) would not have thought of themselves as feminists until their eyes were opened on threads such as this one.

Also, out of interest crazycatdad what are the more cancerous issues, in your opinion, in our society?

The link in my previous post might not have been the best example. I used it based on my points of media influence and whilst it might not have been articulated well by the petitioner I think there were some good points about inappropriate content as I believe this has helped us become desensitised to a lot actually.

This petition is still active and is another example of my points of our education system. I have signed, please share:

www.change.org/p/add-more-female-thinkers-to-the-politics-a-level-syllabus

If education is erasing female contributions throughout history THAT is government censorship seeing as government has a monopoly control over education.

It is odd I never seen any libertarians up in arms on this particular point only feminists...

Well out of 650 there are 191 women sitting in parliament. I don't care who helps their voice but the louder it is the better.

Change will and can happen with action. Don't give up!

Should read our voice!

Peyia, hmm, good question. I'm not sure there are any, if we're considering issues based on how insidious they are. There are so many ways that censorship can be dressed up as perfectly reasonable.

100% in favour of that A level petition and would definitely sign, but it seems to have already succeeded. :) Did someone say feminism was unpopular?

Olivia you have missed out your most noteworthy refrain:

"I fear for my son's. One day they will be accused of rape by a lying slag"

There, I've included it for you. Not much reason for you to stick around now. Or perhaps you were saving your best ' til last ?

With patriarchy and questions about its existence, I always think what the world would be like if it were designed around women instead, then compare.

A matriarchy might, for example, provide universal free childcare for all ages and pay its childcare workers highly. A creche in every office block. Jobs that fit in around school, or schools that fit in around jobs. Free sanpro. Most MPs would be women, 95% of CEOs would be women, gods would be female. Inheritance would be through the maternal line since, obviously, you always know who the mother is. And so on and on.

So when you look at our current society, you begin to see that it's very clearly organised around men's needs. And not just any old men, but (straight, white) men who have a woman at home to do all the wifework. All the childbearing, childrearing, cleaning, cooking, caretaking, school holiday cover, nursing, arsewiping and so forth. It's also very good at keeping the straight white men in power and everyone else out of it.

The patriarchy is not a roomful of Don Draper types smoking pipes, stroking their beards and deciding how they're going to screw women over this week, muha. It's the way society works, how it's designed, who for and who has the power within it.

Go on then, Olivia, how are you going to save feminism? (from itself)

I have a sneaking suspicion it just might involve Not Doing Feminism, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong. I'm eccentric that way.

(am very at the lying slags comment, btw. Struggling to place that in the canon of any school of feminism, equalism, or indeed just being-a-decent-humanism that I'm aware of).

crazycatdad yes it has succeeded! Brilliant isn't it? I still think more signatures will help the cause however

Surprise surprise most women don't want to be told they're easily oppressed victims of men. What a shock.

Really, annoying kid? You read the disappointment, the frustration and low spirits of the OP, and that was what you came up with to lift her spirits? You're all heart. Give yourself a medal.