I hope this wasn't a stupid thing to do!

[CaptainWentworth]

I've just impulsively done something which I'm now having a bit of a wibble about.

Had an email round all the regional offices of my firm this morning, from the Regional Chairman, to let us know about some recent promotions to partner. As usual they were both men, and for some reason I was moved to send the following reply (only to him, not everyone!)

Hi X,

Congratulations to Y and Z.

I may be wrong, but (from a glance at the public web pages for each office) I think the new promotions will make 24 male partners in the region to one female. I’d be so pleased if that ratio improved in the future; I’m sure there can’t be such a lack of talented senior women in the firm.

Apologies if that sounds impertinent; I don’t mean to be – it’s just that the discrepancy struck me quite forcibly.

Kind regards,
CaptainWentworth

Have I just made a complete wally of myself/ labelled myself as a troublemaker? I'm a pretty junior minion around these parts so it's not like he will have any idea who I am- but he's prob thinking wtf!

It was very brave of you to call this out.

Perhaps if more people did this we would see the requisite change much sooner.

But let's keep our heads down, fight our own battles alone if we really must and wait for the men to say "no, I don't deserve this promotion/pay rise , give it to her". I'm sure that's going to happen any minute now...

CaptainWentworth brilliant email and brave (and sensible move). If the company make life difficult for you as a result of this very polite and factually (one would imagine) email. If they do and in the long run you feel you just can't get on in the company you can move. I am assuming you do not live in a place with only one employer!

Plus if they were to really make life difficult for you, you may consider suing for constructive dismissal!

Quite surprised some people think you over stepped the mark, wonder if people think that when men point stuff out!

I work in a place where one can politely express an opinion and I find it a bit sad that anyone can't do that in their place of employment. Almost as if we are not in the 21st century!

Having read a number of people express the idea that this action was in some way dangerous or unsafe or unwise I am very worried for the women of this ad every nation if we are so worried about what the menz will say or think. Companies or organisations that are systematically racist should be well aware that they will be challenged. Should this not also be the case for organisations that are sexist?

If we all acted a bit more like Captain at times then I think we'd see change a lot sooner. However, like many others, I frequently put personal self interest above doing the right thing which is why I think that OP's email was a brave thing to do, even if it's not the action I'd take myself (hypocrite that I am!)

Also, just to respond to Italian's point - it is VERY easy when it comes to promotions for companies to end up with highly qualified and competent white men in senior positions whilst having lower rungs full of women and people of colour. It is very difficult to challenge because it's not that the promotions are going to some who doesn't merit it, but that unconscious bias looks at 5 equally capable candidates and chooses the one who "fits".

Unfortunately, where I work also seems to have a policy of promoting complete idiots who look and sound right over genuinely competent women / gay men / anyone who isn't white and doesn't have RP English.

Showed your mail to DH. He's a senior manager (not accountancy). His reaction was no big deal about writing the mail, it's industry wide issue and no response is perhaps because he is aware and there is just nothing to say. Anyway whatever the reaction of the company you're clearly intelligent, principled and highly employable. No biggie. From my PoV it is great you have asserted yourself to start to correct the disparity of feeling like a minion when you are in fact a qualified accountant.

I have a nice update to share before the weekend- had another email around about promotions and we have appointed a female senior partner to one of our Scottish offices So its obviously not completely impossible to rise to the top here as a woman!

Great news.

Ballsy move OP

A ratio of 24:1 in a field where there are pretty much as many men as women is very odd indeed, well done for pointing it out! And good news on the recent promotions!

I will remember this thread next time I'm tempted to open my big gob...

Good, I hope you remember the overwhelming support you had in the face of one or two people who, let's face it, if a feminist said the sky was blue, would decide it was yellow and stick to that doggedly!

Really good news about the new promotions as well.

You do realise your post about the appointment of a senior female partner identifies the firm in question?

I've just received a sector newsletter which is almost certainly referring to this appointment.

Eh? Because it's such a rare event for a woman to be appointed to senior management that across the entire country the one you happen to have seen in your newsletter must be the same one that the OP is talking about?

Well that kinda proves the OP's point in a nutshell, doesn't it?!

Good for you, OP. I like your e-mail, and I think in any properly run company it would be taken as useful feedback and input. I know it's one of the things my company (getting on for 3000 employees) is working on very seriously. We're gradually getting more female middle managers, but relatively few senior managers (though our head of R&D is female).

I have a couple of good friends who are among the first women to make it into senior management, and we have lunchtime chats about the barriers women face - whether it's finding role models, mentoring, knowing the job can be done flexibly (one of them is childfree, the other has kids and works part time and from home some days), thinking about how to word job adverts so that people know that part timers can go for management jobs, encouraging women to move forward (that old chestnut that men will put themselves forward for a job where they meet half the criteria, whereas women self-filter by only going for it when they tick all the boxes). I think good employers and their HR departments are clued up about things like unconscious selection bias and so on.

Eh? Because it's such a rare event for a woman to be appointed to senior management that across the entire country the one you happen to have seen in your newsletter must be the same one that the OP is talking about?

The OP has published that she works for a national firm of accountants with regional offices and that one of their Scottish offices has appointed a woman partner as it's senior partner

There was a financial sector newsletter announcing several new appointments for a national firm of accountants including the appointment of a woman partner to senior partner in in one of its Scottish regional offices.

The financial sector newsletter referred to "a number of changes have been made to x's senior leadership team in Scotland. XY has been named senior partner for the firms' (city in Scotland) office, having been with the firm for 21 years".

The OP is talking about a senior partner appointment in Scotland
-not just any random senior management jobs for an accountancy firm which has cross border offices. That in itself narrows down the field of potential firms.

It's up to the OP- She said she didn't want to be outed. I think she has outed herself.

It still proves the OP's point, doesn't it? That the appointment of women to senior roles is such a rarity that from the whole industry you've been able to identify her company now that they have done so.

With more than a little help from the op, Sera. She furnished quite a few of the relevant details.

I don't recall saying anything about whether or not she had a point. The OP said she didn't want to be outed. From what she said you could narrow it down to about 10 firms. Out of that, one firm announced this appointment immediately after the OP did.

Sorry, I'm getting chromosomes mixed I meant to say "xx has been named senior partner etc, etc."

And how many assistant managers work at this firm? Thousands.

The chances of the OP being recognised by anyone are slim.

I'm working on being more outspoken like you Captain - well done for pointing out the obvious and keeping communication open. Why shouldn't a minion have an understanding/question the recruitment process. It's obviously needs addressing with 24/1.

Unfortunately I think women lag behind of men because we are still struggling with this draconian society of women being child bearers etc. It's all still very new that women are in the work place as equals. Good for you again for trying to change this attitude.

And to be fair to Lass, Capt did say she wanted to avoid being outed. She had already giving away a bit of sensitive info about the field and location because of PP's questions. I wondered how other MN's could work out friends/colleagues and this is an example. There may be 1000 of employees but all it takes is for the Boss to have mentioned to a spouse or the PA (if they fielded the email) to be a MN.

Anyway, I still think you done a great thing Capt. so apologies for distracting from that.

And yes it does prove the point of the disparity between men and women progressing in the same roles if it is so obvious who new appointed senior partner is.

Oh god, now I'm lying awake worrying about having put any of this on here in the first place.

I did get a pleasant, polite reply over the weekend basically saying yes, this is an issue they are aware of as a firm, but the ratio I mentioned isn't as bad as I thought because not everyone is listed publicly.

I really didn't want to post any more about it but I felt it was important to explain that the 24:1 ratio we have been discussing isn't right.

Please don't have a go about me being wrong, as I don't think I can take it at the moment. I don't post much here and starting this thread has affected me way more than I realised it would- it all feels so personal. I often think I'm not cut out for the corporate world, partly because I am too naive and idealistic, and just a bit- idk, not up to it, anyway. This has confirmed that for me.

Captain W
Name-change for any more threads that you start or contribute to going forward but please try and stop feeling anxious about this one.

The email you wrote initially was accurate and polite.
Whether you raise your head above the parapet again, or keep under the radar, I hope you will feel more peaceful shortly.

I disagree with you. I think you are made for a corporate environment. You demonstrated you are not a sheep and it may encourage others to lead by your example. You should try and give yourself more credit.

Also, the email really was fine. It was polite. Only you can judge if the tone was correct based on knowing the environment of your organisation.

If you are worried about the identifying posts then like a PP suggested, you can name change or ask MNHQ to remove the two posts.

Chin up!

The corporate world needs people who will ask questions like yours. You've said nothing unreasonable, and even if someone can identify your employer (and we only have supposition that that's possible,) I don't think anone could identify you. You haven't shown your company in a bad light - their diversity ratío may not be great, but the same for most other companies, and they seem to be responding in a way that at least suggests they're listening. Stop worrying.

I'd be bloody astounded if, in pointing out that the senior management within a company was heavily male biased would out you anyway.

And to be honest, companies like that need to be outed. I know you didn't want to be outed, but a quick name change if you're really worried will sort that out

Don't fret, you did a good thing, and you've received fairly positive feedback so no harm done at all.

Captain please take heart from the fact there are lots and lots (more reading than posting, remember) of intelligent, professional and all round fantastic women here who think your actions have been brave and inspiring, and who support you.

It's not being naive or idealistic to think women should make up 50% (minimum ) of senior roles and express this thought - it is just basic common sense, isn't it? We need to just accept this as a benchmark and ask how we achieve it - this is exactly what you did.

Women in the workplace need more women like you - who question the status quo and have a healthy respect for, and confidence in, other women in the workplace. Have more confidence in, and respect for yourself!

You absolutely are cut out for the workplace, you just need to maybe have some more confidence in yourself - find whatever prompted your email initially and bloody cultivate it. Honestly. I think you have been brilliant and I'm sure there are lots of us who think this.