The SNP and gender recognition

[Darrowisred]

www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/31/nicola-sturgeon-pledges-trans-rights-overhaul-in-scotland/

Does this mean I can change my nationality from Scottish if they achieve independence? I've never really identified as Scottish anyway.....

What do you think my Agenda is Hirples? and what "smears" exactly?? Everything I have written is factual.

Interesting that you think the SNP behave like UKIP Palmer

Not entirely what I said, Anthony.

You said:

I find it Strange that SNP supporters are so touchy when people criticise the SNP, I don't notice the same thing at all with any other party.

I replied:

UKIP are pretty similar.

By which I said that UKIP supporters are touchy when people criticise the party, nothing more.

I don't, for example think that the SNP is made up of middle class, golf club membership xenophobic homophobes, who have very 1950's views about what women should be doing and how anyone who isn't male and of Anglo-Saxon descent isn't actually fit to be called British the irony

The SNP is wrong on this, as they are on many things. They're also right about a lot of things too. UKIP on the other hand is wrong about pretty much everything.

Apologies Palmer I didn't mean to misrepresent what you said. I should have added the word supporters after SNP and UKIP.

The SNP are just as objectionable as UKIP.

Darrowisred you can do all that without getting your bc changed surely. Will people be ask to provide their bc to prove their gender from here on in? Will they need to if this info is captured on the SNP ID database?

Does anyone care what anyone else identifies as?

I wouldn't imagine this would affect a huge amount of people in Scotland and is the SNP pandering to a couple of loud lobbying groups.

It is absolutely not 'fair enough' for it to be used to label intersex people!

If intersex people, like anyone else, wish to adopt a non binary label, that is 'fair enough'

Bombardier who will know what people label themselves as? Will you walk around with a badge on telling people?

I shall just be mortally offended when they mislabel me.

Its a brave new world

Do you know much about the SNP Palmer or are you some one who lives in England and thinks they are lovely and fluffy not like those nasty Tories.

Apologies Palmer I didn't mean to misrepresent what you said.

Thanks Anthony, and no worries. We'll have to agree to disagree about whether UKIP and SNP are comparable in their awfulness. In my opinion UKIP gets precisely nothing right, whereas SNP does at least get some things right, if not everything by a long stretch.

However, yes, a lot of the supporters of both organisations can be utterly horrendous.

To get back on track, seems Ian MacEwan (sp?) has been arguing that the nature of the self is biological, among other things, and that identity cannot be picked off a shelf. On phone, so cannot link.

Yes he has Cocoa. Can't link either from phone. No doubt he will now be trolled and boycotted. Stonewall have already demanded an apology for his 'offensive' comments.

The Times yesterday had a supportive editorial (print edition). For Ian MacEwan, I mean

I am a life long Guardian reader, but stopped due to anti- woman tone. Buying the Times was kind of an act of protest, and it has an anti-woman sleazy aspect in the magazine. But I agree on this one. As does the Free Church of Scotland. So odd company for me to normally keep! But historically, it was the religious right who actually argued the same as feminists as regards removing the sexual double standard (in relation to prostitution), so may be not such odd company.

As for LGBT votes, this policy may well get the SNP T votes but not necessarily LGB ones. Lesbians disappeared under the trans bus long ago & gay men seem to be headed the same way.

I wonder if NS did this to get Kezias vote?

It was quoted earlier about under 16s being able to change gender with their parents permission. What about if you mix this with the named person stuff. Theoretically then if the parent was against their child changing gender, the NP could decide that was against their child's best interests and allow it? So little Chloe decides that she quite likes football, short hair and trousers and suddenly becomes officially a boy called Brian because her headmistress didn't want Chloe to not have her/his gender identity recognised? Even if Chloe may decide in a couple of years that actually she likes make up and pink and dresses?

It would certainly be a step forward to have hobbies and favourite colours determining gender.

He, so today I feel more interested in checking the oil in my car than cooking a lovely roast whilst wearing a pretty dress so today I am pretty much a man? Or if my car was pink and I had some very cute flowery gloves to wear whilst checking the oil I'd be having a gender fluid day? This makes my head hurt so in having a headache I must be a woman or does that only count if a big hairy man wants to have sex with me?

I'm all for live and let live btw and it's tragic if people in genuine pain don't get the support and recognition they need.

Well, if the G part of LGBT goes against T too, some one might listen, on account of them being men and all that.

It would certainly be a step forward to have hobbies and favourite colours determining gender.

Sorry if I have read this wrong, but is this a joke?

Why would favourite colours or hobbies be something that should determine gender? I love blue. And lots of sports (some of which are traditionally dominated by men). I like DIY and played with cars and Lego as a child, hated pink and didn't like dresses. I am still a woman, still female, and never thought otherwise.

Colours and hobbies (and toys) should absolutely NOT determine someone's gender.

Yes, well, I am clearing out my garage in a tracksuit today with DS, so I am clearly a man today. Until I cook his lunch and get changed to something prettier to go out. Voilà woman! Magic.

I agree about genuine hurt re intersex and body dysmorphia. But this is not the answer.

Lol yeah its kind of a joke on my part but not on the part of the cutting edge nonbinary trans community where biology is no longer relevant to gender, and gender is a spectrum, leaving us with the question 'what is gender?'