Do you LOVE Zara Larsson too?

[hejsvejs]

I love this woman. Look her up on Instagram and Twitter, she's a very sttong woman and a great role model for young girls.

And that's all I wanted to say

www.buzzfeed.com/vikky/34-times-zara-larsson-was-the-queen-of-twitter-y65c?utm_term=.lfD8YAV8YL

I do not have a moral objection to abortion, nor did i state that a woman should have to pay for her abortions. What i said was that it was irresponsible and not cool to say "She wanna fuck around and have an abortion every month then so it be". This is my position, do you have any other straw men you'd like to trot out ? I'm not saying anyone should be forced through a pregnancy, or that abortion should be denied to a woman that wants one.

This kid is 18 years old, and her mushroom/foetus analogy i think demonstrates that quite clearly. You dont have to be a pro lifer or religious (am i neither) to appreciate the wonder of life and that choosing to terminate pregnancy on a regular basis as some kind of lifestyle choice isn't what the fucking NHS was set up for.

This is what you said:

I agree with most of it apart from the bit about abortion, unless the woman in question is willing to pay for the procedures herself that is. Abortion is something done to a woman by someone else, i.e. a qualified surgeon, so it's not quite right to say that someone can just have one whenever they feel like it the same way they would get a tattoo.

No straw men here.

And here:

the point is what right has she to EXPECT that society will pay for the cost of training and recruiting surgeons to perform as many abortions as she wants?

Unless you are hard of thinking it is pretty obvious that I am arguing that it is wrong to expect that abortion on demand as a lifestyle choice is something that women should expect (leaving aside the fact that IME people would not make that choice). If someone wants abortion on tap as a lifestyle choice then THEY ought to pay for it.

You represented my comments as saying that all women should be expected to pay for any abortion, then argued against that. That is a straw man.

The attitude that I am entitled to an abortion exactly when I want it isn't healthy. Why should i be ? Why should anyone be ? For your benefit this position is not the same as saying that everyone must pay for their own abortions. I hope this clarifies.

So, abortion on demand as a 'lifestyle choice' is not a great choice, and you think that if a woman wants that she should pay for it, but what if the woman can't pay for it? Is she then forced to carry the baby to term? Is that good thing? Is that a cost effective solution to the problem?

You represented my comments as saying that all women should be expected to pay for any abortion, then argued against that. No I didn't. I have been debating in the context of the thread, about abortion on demand and 'abortion used as a contraceptive'.

And also - 'hard of thinking' - nice.

Is that a cost effective solution to the problem?

I don't understand now. What is your position, are you arguing that abortion on demand as lifestyle choice is a fine thing, and that the threads subject was perfectly reasonable in implying it was ? What is the problem ?

You are continually asking rhetorical questions which I think are to support the position that women should be able to use abortion as if it were a contraceptive and no one should have any problem with that, but I'm not sure.

They weren't rhetorical questions, I was hoping you'd answer them.

However, I've got stuff to do now. Will be back this evening if you've managed to untangle your thoughts by then.

Casting passive aggressive aspersions on quality of thinking right back atcha

Well, I'm not sure why you think my thoughts are tangled, but I'll try this. No one should make choices that put them in a situation they do not want to be in, unless they have a surefire way of getting out of that situation. Not having the means to get out of situation you got yourself into is not the same thing as being "forced" to do something you don't want. Being wealthy buys you access to many such ways, i don't think this is fair, but it is how it is. If you are going assume that the public will pick up the bill for all your choices, then you shouldn't.

It'll, once again you've tied yourself in knots then been rude about the intellectual ability of those disagreeing with you.

How have I tied myself in knots !?

The first one about not being a "hoe" is nothing to be admired.

The 'have an abortion every month" is flippant and irresponsible.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but...

No one should make choices that put them in a situation they do not want to be in, unless they have a surefire way of getting out of that situation.

Noone should, but they do. So, once you're faced with the reality of a woman who has previously had 3/4/5 abortions, however many you feel are acceptable, but is pregnant again and wants an abortion, which you now feel is a 'lifestyle choice' and unacceptable, the public will have to either 'pick up the bill' for the abortion, or 'pick up the bill' for the pregnancy and birth.

The pregnancy and birth is more expensive than the abortion, so don't you think the public would rather pick up the bill for the abortion?

There is a whole other discussion to be had about the best way to enable a woman to avoid needing multiple abortions, but you keep coming back to the outrage that the public has to pay for them, so I wanted to address that point.

the "hoe" post is not Zara's feelings on the matter...the next two refute it

I feel like I am being forced back to that point because you keep pushing on it, I also feel like I am repeating myself, i don't think that the public paying for abortions is an outrage at all. The real issue, and the one I initially commented on, is that it is irresponsible to promote abortion as a contraceptive in the first place. It is irresponsible for many reasons, cost is indeed one of them, as is the entitlement and expectation it encourages.

Do you agree that it is irresponsible ?

Oh FGS. Noone is promoting abortion as contraception. As GreenTomatoJam said, she used an extreme example to demonstrate that it's nobody's business but the woman's, and then in the very next sentence says it's not the best option, and there should be more talk about birth control.

And you were the one that suggested in your first post that the woman should be paying if she wanted multiple abortions. And followed that up with concerns about the cost of recruiting and training surgeons! And every time I challenge you on the logic of your points, you swerve off to talk about irresponsibility. It's very frustrating.

I'm very sorry for the MASSIVE derail OP. In a belated reply to your post, she seems like she's got some great opinions and feelings on feministy matters. I can't say her writing style appeals particularly, but then I'm not her target audience I guess. I also have no idea who she is , but great if she's getting girls and young women interested in talking about feminism.

It's quite common for posters to misrepresent what other posters said. It's less common for them to misrepresent themselves.

You've achieved it though, itll. Well done!

Haha, no worries Pun!

She's massive at the moment, has sold platinum in the uk and is 4th in the uk singles chart at the moment.

Probably more popular amongst teenagers (am I being presumptions saying your not??).

Her ouevre hasn't troubled the 6music playlist unfortunately...

I'll have you know I'm never regularly mistaken for a member of the 18-24 demographic due to my radiant youthfulness and general down-with-the-kids demeanor...

Noone is promoting abortion as contraception

Not my interpretation of 'if she want fuck around every month and have an abortion then so it be", but you seem to have a habit of only seeing what you want.

And you are wrong that it is no ones business but the woman's. Logically (since you are big on that) a society has to decide whether it thinks offering free and on demand abortion to all women as part of a national health service is a choice it wants to make, and logically other professionals who are engaged by a national body are required to be trained and paid to provide that service, so why you think that it is an entitlement and no one has any business discussing defeats me. I do not want to see that service abused by what i read as encouragement that it is just dandy to have an abortion every month if you feel like it.

Barefoot did you have anything to add or did you just want to stick up for your chum ? Perhaps you could show how I "misrepresented myself" ?

And although I am in favour of abortion, there is a moral dimension to repeatedly terminating healthy foetuses, it isn't just about the immediate monetary cost.

Not my interpretation of 'if she want fuck around every month and have an abortion then so it be", but you seem to have a habit of only seeing what you want.

Ha! Ahahahahaha! That is too much. I saw that bit. I addressed that bit. You are the one who refuses to see the next bit. You know, the bit right after where SHE SAYS IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA AND PEOPLE SHOULD TALK ABOUT BIRTH CONTROL MORE. Sorry for shouting but I have said that three times now and you have ignored it each time.

I give up. Congratulations. You have defeated me with your resolute avoidance of all logical debate. Very well done. Have a .

Certainly, itll. Here:

I agree with most of it apart from the bit about abortion, unless the woman in question is willing to pay for the procedures herself that is

Contradicts

nor did i state that a woman should have to pay for her abortions

Oh, and AFAIK I've never encountered Phil before, so I wouldn't call her a chum, though she seems perfectly lovely.

HTH.

One more thing - this:

Barefoot did you have anything to add or did you just want to stick up for your chum ?

is an absolute classic. Barefoot and I have not interacted once before this thread. Do you always categorise people who agree with each other and not you as 'sticking up for their chums'?

Another A debating technique there.