I would like your opinion on something...

[UnicornsRuleAll]

I am a trans-women, I was born with the male physical body, but always identified as female, did everything commonly associated with "Female" Anyway, I have been told that I should not be allowed to use the female bathroom.

I was just wondering if you agree with this? My gender on my passport is female, I'm attracted to men, I look nothing like a man, yet people are trying to force me into their bathroom regardless, what is your position on the issue?

If you pass, I wouldn't give a shit about you using women's toilets. Piss away, no-one will know you're not a biological woman anyway and it really doesn't matter.

I just don't believe that you're a woman. I think you're a transwoman and that's different and no amount of chanting the mantra "transwomen are women" makes a black white or male female.

Not believing that a transwoman is exactly the same biologically as a woman, does not mean that I wish any transwoman harm or death or any of the other things the most vocal transactivist campaigners project onto women who refuse to comply with their ideology.

If you "pass"- who is telling you to use the men's loo?

makes black white, sorry.

And yeah, transactivists should concentrate their fire on violent men who feel threatened by transwomen's refusal to perform masculinity, instead of on feminists who do NOT inflict violence on transwomen.

But men are powerful and feminists are not and that is why transactivists attack us instead of the men responsible for maintaining the construction of masculinity as it currently is, which oppresses so many men and a minority so badly, that they end up with gender dysphoria. I don't blame them, it must be fucking horrible to grow up knowing you've got that to look forward to. they should be joining with feminists to dismantle it, instead of reinforcing it by declaring that any failure to measure up to masculinity, must mean you're that "other" human, the not quite right one, the woman. Because men are default and anyone who isn't one, must be the other one, right? Because the other one isn't something real in her own right, she's just the one that's not quite right. To reinforce that shit and then add insult to injury by colonising women's spaces, is seriously reactionary behaviour.

transactivists should concentrate their fire on violent men who feel threatened by transwomen's refusal to perform masculinity, instead of on feminists who do NOT inflict violence on transwomen
I'm sick of a few loudmouths on social media being held up as if they speak for all trans people and trans activists when they really don't. Of course patriarchy and misogyny has a lot to do with transphobia, I don't personally know any trans activists who wouldn't agree with that (although I'm sure there are some out there).

I'm sick of a few loudmouths on social media being held up as if they speak for all trans people and trans activists when they really don't.

They do though, because we never hear from the others.
If other trans people, who don't share these views, feel they are being misrepresented....then why not speak up? like we bloody well have to

I have no idea if my last post made sense! I was basically agreeing that the same people who hate women hate trans people and that you'd like to think that all oppressed groups could support each other.
Misogynistic trans people don't speak for all trans people any more than Germaine Greer speaks for all feminists.

Loads of trans people speak up! Their voices don't get heard in the same way that women's voices often don't get heard.
What is it you want trans people to say?

Say that the few aggressive transactivist voices don't speak for all trans. Simple enough ?

I have no problem saying that not all feminists, or all women, or all MN'ers speak for me

I did say they're the most vocal. And they are. The sensible ones like Miranda Yardley don't get a hearing and that's also because of course, the media prefer the loony fringe. Because they discredit women and transpeople at the same time, so win win for the Daily Mail

I think a lot of trans people are wary of speaking up because not only will they get shouted down, they might also lose their community. I regularly talk to the trans people I know and 'know' from social media and lots are gender-critical. They don't shout about it because it's threatening for them.

I also wonder about trans men and trans women. I know that some lesbians feel that after the horror of HIV in the early days and lesbians fighting the good fight, they were thrown under the bus a bit. I wonder if some trans men feel the same. Ditto for intersex people who get used as a debate point.

My kids have unisex loos at their school. I felt weird about it, wouldn't have wanted to pee in a cubicle next to a boy I fancied when I was young, but my kids said I'm old fashioned. Let's all pee together I say!

Yep, let the children lead the way. If they don't know the difference, we shouldn't project our own unease on them. I believe in unisex loos.

Well it would be nice to hear transpeople speak up for women when ridiculous things happen like trans activists forcing the Midwives Association of North America to say 'pregnant people' instead of 'pregnant women' so as not offend transwomen.
And to speak out against things like this ridiculous IOC decision which is removing rights from women.
And to condemn the widespread use of TERF whenever anyone disagrees with any trans person ever.
And to say actually, maybe women who've been raped shouldnt have to share a refuge with someone in possession of a working penis. 'Hey, maybe, instead of making abused women feel scared and uncomfortable by forcing our way into their refuge, why not start our own? Let's get on it! A refuge for transwomen, great!'

If any trans person EVER anywhere would just stop and think for a moment about what they are doing to women's rights by demanding that we give them over, and screaming 'TRANSPHOBES!!' if any woman anywhere dates to disagree......then yes, that would be quite refreshing.

But I'll not hold my breath.

If transwomen could give over just thinking about their OWN feelings, and give juuuust a few minutes to think of others - that would be great.
As in 'hmm, I don't like it but I can see how my working penis makes these vulnerable abused women feel unsafe, so I won't insist they share with me. Here's an unanswered need - I'll start a trans shelter.'

Or 'well I'd love to compete as a woman, but I do realise that biology makes this unfair. What can we do? Let's lobby for a trans category!'

But all we ever hear is 'we are women! STFU! TRANSPHOBES!! I want I want!' and it's wearing a bit thin.

I'll keep it brief. You deserve the right to pee and poo in peace and safety. As do we all.
However, since we do not share a sex (you are male, I am female) nor a gender (you identify as woman gender, I don't)
then I cannot fathom why you should want to be in whichever toilet I use.
We have neither sex nor gender in common.

Thomas, in other words...transwomen, give up your male privilege. Then I'll start listening.

YES AF.

Could have saved me 5 angry minutes there

I think those 5 angry minutes may have done you good

Yes I think so

If you're post-op, then of course you can use the female toilets.

Pre-op, nope.

But this -

Well itsbetterthanabox, I guess if you imagined how it'd be for you if you were made to use the male bathrooms with men, you'd feel... unconfortable? Unsafe?

still leaves me speechless. So I'll log out for a bit I think.

Imo, if you are post op then that's good enough for me and I view you as a woman. Either way, I personally wouldn't object to you using the ladies loo, but I do agree that generally pre op tw have no place in female only spaces.

I am live and let live on this - you've had the op and that's commitment enough to me. How you self define is your business. I think tw get on women's nerves sometimes because they are not always happy to self define and sometimes behave as though they have the right to define us too, with all that cis bollocks, which just smacks of another sub set of males imposing their opinions on women and basically continuing to enjoy the benefits of a patriarchy.

Oh everyone's ruined it by being logical and pleasant - we're all meant to be raving terfy psychopaths and tell OP to die in a fire or something.

Of course, I'm sure many of us could point OP in the direction of some lovely transactivists who would happily oblige with male sexual threats of choice instead...

FUCK OFF. FUCK OFF EVERYONE.

Shameless placemark.

I have nothing to say that hasn't been said. This is a fascinating thread.

No problem with you using the ladies whatsoever