Can you be for gender equality but not a feminist?

[TanithDaUnicorn]

I am completely for equality of all people ragardless of gender, sexuality, race, etc. But I don't like being a "Feminist" Mainly because in my opinion it focuses on Gender above anything else, and the fact that there are a lot of double standards when it comes to it.

What is your opinion? Am I sexist simply because I don't want to be considered a feminist?

Oooh the "wage-gap myth" another MRA favourite.

Thank you, OP for your enlightening rant. Thank you.

How do you feel about men doing all the dangerous jobs, OP?

< racks brains to remember other MRA tropes>

And of course I recognise all Woman's inequalities as well. I am not meaning to sound like I am against women, but you asked for where men have less rights and I gave you some, now you are complaining about it?

I agree with you on most things. Sexual violence, domestic abuse, etc. But again, I do not just focus on one side and not the other. Like most of you seem to be. I guess only Woman right supporters are allowed here, not everyone's rights supporters, no biggy, I will take my opinions elsewhere, thanks for the talk.

OP, please could you explain the voting/ dying thing?

Re the decision to have a baby, I'm a woman and I wouldn't interfere with a man's right to bodily autonomy, therefore I expect a woman to have those rights too.

You are probably thinking "Omg picking men over your own gender blah blah" If you are one of these people, you are not capable of intelligent unbiased discussion and I would appreciate if you just ignored this thread, I am open to debate and discussion, but don't try to push me into a box where I do not fit. Anyway, thanks for the consideration.

You would probably find discussion more productive if you responded to what people actually say rather than deciding for them what they will say and making up an outraged response.

However, I think we might have seen you round these parts before...

bbpp, that's really interesting on the %ages.

bbpp - I saw a survey of pay in the accountancy profession last week. It showed that the gender pay gap of 20% opened up immediately accountants finished training and entered their first full time qualified post.

The age group of newly qualified accountants was under 30 and for full time posts so not correlated to typical child bearing years for professional women and obviously exactly the same age and qualifications and experience as men.

The gender pay gap is real and gets wider in both % and £ terms the higher up the pay scale one goes.

There is overwhelming pressure for women to be responsible for contraception. So you've got no worries on that score Tanith. If men don't want children then they also need to take responsibility for their choices.

I notice that you agree men shouldn't be able to force women to have an abortion (although surely the alternative is that women get to make that choice, hence the status quo) but you haven't said anything about forcing women to go through pregnancy.

And you are very wrong about women being legally able to have terminations. Millions of women have no access to safe and legal terminations and even when they do there are many barriers in the way (such as the state of Texas having 5 clinics when it's the size of France).

...by blaming men for not "Putting a condom on" Why would the pressure be on Men to use contraception? Why shouldn't the female be on contraceptives as well?

That was in response to you saying that it wasn't fair that men could be forced to become fathers against their wishes. Not if they wear a condom. If a man doesn't want a baby, use protection! Don't force a woman to take contraception because of your wish not to procreate!

I think it's fairly safe to assume the burden of contraception usually falls on women.

I think Ophelia answered your points with clarity.

Oh dangerous jobs? If they want to do those jobs, they can, if women want to do so as well, they should have the choice. Personally I sense a prejudice against women in hard working jobs. Such as authoritative positions, there aren't enough women in authoritative positions in my opinion. I think you misunderstand me.

I do recognise that Woman face prejudice in area's, I also recognise that Men face prejudice in others, having a competition over who has the least problems is a pointless exercise, I don't like saying "Women are more unequal" Or "Men are more unequal" Both face challenges that should be tackled individually, not by pointing the finger at who has it worse. But again, these are just my opinions. Feel free to disagree.

The pay gap starts in childhood with unequal pocketmoney
Probably those slacker girls making wrong choices/part time chores

Btw i need to know. Wtf is the voting/agreeing to die thing?

ABetaDad1 I think I saw a similar one, but it didn't specify by role if I remember correctly so I didn't want to link because surely OP would pick holes. There's so much information out there I'm not sure how a person can not recognize that pay gap is a real thing.

This is the one I saw, 3rd page.
www.icaew.com/~/media/corporate/files/about%20icaew/ICAEWSALARYSURVEY2015-amended.ashx?utm_source=ICAEWjobs&utm_medium=ArticleLink&utm_campaign=SalarySurveyReport

Women do 70% of the farming worldwide and get about 10% of the wealth. That's pretty fucking hard work. So is childcare.

Women have always worked hard.

Oh and we will feel free to disagree. Yes both sexes face challenges. But it's funny how one of theses has the vast majority of power and wealth in the world.

Yeah but it's because women are layzeee.

*the sexes

If you are using acronyms like 'MRA', OP, I suspect you made up your mind on the answer to your question long ago.

Oh that, well when Men turn 18 they are required to sign a "Selective Serviced" card, basically, they can be drafted into the military by force if the government feels it's necessary, women do not have to sign it.

Women would probably face a lot of bad things as well if this happened, but still. I think everyone should have to sign this card.

And who made up that rule Tanitha?

Youc an use any words you like to describe what you believe. My sons are happy to call themselves feminists. You aren't. that's fine. My feminism is about equality for men and women and is as much campaigning for fairness for men as for women but that's not everyone's thing.

If you don't like the word feminism don't use it and just talk about wanting equality for men and women.

The voting without agreeing to die thing refers to the draft in the US. Basically all men are effectively forced to sign up to a register so that the army can call them up to fight at any time.

I'm against it, but it's not likely to be on the radar of the majority of British feminists since we don't have it here.

The feminist/gender neutral perspective is split on whether it should be abolished altogether or whether if it remains women should also have the "opportunity" to sign up.

Not to sound like an MRA, but Child custody, reproductive rights (To choose parenthood) Genital mutilation protection, woman can access federal and state programs, and vote in elections without agreeing to die, men do not. More leniency in courts, especially when it comes to sexual assault.

Child custody has been dealt with comprehensively already. Reproductive rights is an odd choice, given that women's reproductive rights, especially in the US where I'm assuming you're from are being eroded daily, in favour of being forced to give birth to an unwanted baby, if I remember rightly, these changes in the law are made by men. FGM is illegal in the UK, and yet, not a single prosecution, why might that be, do you think? For someone who claims to know things, you might want to have a wee look at when the draft was abolished, which is what you were alluding to in your hyperbolic vote in elections without agreeing to die statement. You might want to have another look at the stats for your leniency in court statements too, they aren't correct.

Those are 4 rights that women have that men don't. But again, I'm not picking sides, I'm completely in the middle pointing out facts when they crop up.

Oooh, I think you might want to get an extinguisher for your pants there.

You are probably thinking "Omg picking men over your own gender blah blah" If you are one of these people, you are not capable of intelligent unbiased discussion and I would appreciate if you just ignored this thread, I am open to debate and discussion, but don't try to push me into a box where I do not fit. Anyway, thanks for the consideration.

I wouldn't dream of forcing you to read facts or my intelligent, well thought out and evidence based discussions, it's far more fun watching you froth. I wonder which fact you'll come out with next. I have a bit of a list here of things that people say when they're trying to pretend not to be MREs.

Unbiased discussion... Oh! My actual sides! And there was I thinking you were actually posting in good faith, silly me!

Um, Women do 70% of the farming.... So? What's your point? Men do 72% of Utilities, 72% of construction 68% of Mining, Quarrying, Oil and Gas Extraction. 66% of manufacturing and 66% of Transportation and Warehousing.

arguably the most important industries in our Society. 30% of the wealth? could you cite that please?

The legislature that brought in the selective service card thing - mostly men, or mostly women?

Didn't we just have this thread?

Or am I thinking of the several hundred "let's go see if we can annoy the silly women" threads we've had before?

Someone needs to put a post up in the reddit or whatever telling them that we just take the piss out of them here?

Bertie, are you saying the US effectively considers a man to be volunteering for the army when he registers to vote? That would definitely need changing but is it correct?

I think it should be abolished. Women shouldn't have to die in wars men start.

However at the current time, men made the decision that that's how they want the world to work. Men decided men should fight, not women. That's not a woman's issue, our fault nor our responsibility to fix. That's not inequality. That's men dictating the running of their country and the role of each sex, as always, with every issue.