Islamaphobia?

[Onnedheil]

So, as feminists, women, fighting against patriarchy, against rape culture against male violence to women. My question is this.

Are we suddenly now supposed to be supporting a religion that is an actual rape culture, Openly accepted paedophilia, actual supremacy of toxic masculinity an actual patriarchy Which is responsible for female genital mutilation , based on a the word of a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male .

And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?

Have I ended up in the twilight zone or something?

When you say atheist Jew. Do you mean the Jewish person as a race in Israel or as a Jewish religion as in Judaism.

"followers who will practice what they are taught by the caliphs"

And who might those "caliphs" be? Do you even know what caliph means?

Some people get annoyed when people talk about ignorance, but seriously

No. That is why we have people like you to explained isn't that the whole reason why we come on Mn?

Are they not Muslim leaders who took over from Muhammad ?

Elendon I assumed you meant either living under a caliphate which extremists apparently want to create ; or an Islamic state which applies Sharia law such as Brunei or Saudi

According to Wiki A caliphate (Arabic: خِلافة‎ khilāfa) is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph (Arabic: خَليفة‎ khalīfah pronunciation (help. · info))—a person considered a political and religious successor to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad (Muhammad ibn ʿAbdullāh), and a leader of the entire Muslim community. The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a Caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a Caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants)

Neither the rulers of Brunei or Saudi are elected and I have no idea if they meet the second criterion. From the point of view of would I want to be a woman in their countries it hardly matters.

I do know however that from what I read now of Brunei it seems a place I would not want to live, compared to what it was when I was there in the 80s when Sharia law did not apply.

So to answer would I prefer to live in a country where Islam is the main religion or where Christianity as applied in Western Europe? I would prefer Western Europe.

According to Wiki there now no longer any political caliphs but there are still caliphs

Though non-political, some Sufi orders and the Ahmadiyya movement[34] define themselves as caliphates. Their leaders are thus commonly referred to as khalifas (caliphs)

So Cote, those 'muslims' who believe in the Caliphate and have declared a Caliphate are not representative of Muslims?

Just like the Republican party disassociated itself from Trump? So those who cheered Trump are not representative of the Republican Party?

An atheist is simply someone who says "Your God story makes no sense, so I'm not buying it"

Well I'm worse than Buffy because I really want to ask what it would mean for a "God story" to "make sense"... Probably time for

On a different note - someone, almond I think, posted way back up about the difference between a raised atheist undergoing religious conversion and someone who'd be brought up in with religion and how the former is more vulnerable to the cult-like aspects… I've been thinking about this a lot recently, as a very close friend - lifelong atheist - has converted to Buddhism (got very defensive when I used the words "religious conversion" when trying to put forward his family's point of view but has now accepted it, sort of, I think…). It has been having a negative effect on relationships with family and close friends and it's funny because if the conversion had been to one of the Abrahamic religions I think people would be more clear and confident in expressing some of their concerns, but it seems to be incredibly difficult to do that with Buddhism because, hey, it's Buddhism, which means "acting with love and kindness" and not having to believe in a deity etc.

Interestingly, a major aspect of this conversion is spending a lot of time at single sex retreats, where people are supposed to leave their gender stereotypes behind and form the sort of spiritual friendships and openness that are difficult to achieve in mixed environments…

So to reform the question are ISIS and their followers as bad as those who believe and follow Trump?

Being an atheist is believing in 3 less gods than christians do, except that those christians will argue that their 3 gods are only one, except when they are three.

Elendon
Trump is a bit of a wanker, but I haven't noticed him inciting mass murder,.
Why do you support it?

"I came to think that as the possibility of god is so microscopically small and that from a "small p" political point of view, agnosticism gives succor to theists, it is important to identify as an atheist."

Bert, I don't understand. Are you actually an agnostic who self misidentifies in order to make a point to others?

slug - I was simply commenting on the fact that I am seeing an atheist friend go through a religious conversion and getting quite absorbed in it to the detriment of close relationships but, as there is no deity etc. it's quite difficult to criticise or to express what it is that is making loved ones so concerned.

I think there are existential beliefs involved in Buddhism and a set of 'principles' and practices that need to be followed to reach something or a destination - the existence of which is unverifiable - and so you need to have faith that by following these practices, adhering to these principles, following this path, leading the 'right' life etc. etc. you will get there… sounds pretty familiar…

I'm not entirely following your post above but Buddhism doesn't have a god/gods. Its not really a religion in the traditional sense but more a set of principles. I don't think Buddhism is incompatible with atheism. Atheists do have morals, values and principles to live by even if they don't believe in god.

What your also forgetting is the fact that they have someone to look to for guidance. The the Buddha sometimes called upon. To me that gives them more power than the human being.

Can a person who practice the religion get the same status as the Buddha if they work hard enough? The one who was the first of all.

Or was the original Buddha special sort of person?

Am going to do a bit of reading on this.

I just think you can be an atheist Buddhist

Sure - you can believe in karma, rebirth, nirvana etc. and not think of these concepts as deities and so retain your atheism.

Laurief, Sure - you can believe in karma, rebirth, nirvana etc. and not think of these concepts as deities and so retain your atheism.

thanks. I have been about thinking about that. It means you have got to have something that exist outside of the body when you die in order for you to be reincarnated.

I think I will strangle with the idea that you can be a Buddhist and an atheist.

Don't be ridiculous redbinneo You know perfectly well I support neither.

"Are they (caliphs) not Muslim leaders who took over from Muhammad ?"

Caliph would be like the Pope: leader of all Muslims in the world. The whole institution ceased to exist when it was abolished as the Ottoman Empire collapsed and Turkey was founded. There is no such position now.

Imagine if the Catholic Church imploded, Vatican razed to the ground and absorbed into Italy, the position of Pope abolished, and there was no Pope for two generations. What would the Christian world think/do if the head of a homicidal fringe group declared himself the new Pope?

That's exactly what the Muslim world thinks about the self-declared "Caliph" in Syria.

"I think I will strangle with the idea that you can be a Buddhist and an atheist"

Please don't strangle any ideas

I don't quite follow what you are struggling with here. Many Buddhists are indeed atheists. They are spiritual, but still atheists. Gautama Buddha said there was no" creator deity". There is something called "secular Buddhism".

"I really want to ask what it would mean for a "God story" to "make sense" "

I heard the story and it's nonsense imo. Is that clearer?

Thanks for making it clear Cote.

Debbriana - you can have secular jews, christians, buddhists… any religion.

I guess what you are struggling with is the idea that spiritual buddhism has any more merit than theism, which is completely understandable but is a different point.