Islamaphobia?

[Onnedheil]

So, as feminists, women, fighting against patriarchy, against rape culture against male violence to women. My question is this.

Are we suddenly now supposed to be supporting a religion that is an actual rape culture, Openly accepted paedophilia, actual supremacy of toxic masculinity an actual patriarchy Which is responsible for female genital mutilation , based on a the word of a paedophile warmonger who propagates a monotheist singular God who is male .

And when Anyone, speaks out about these things We're labelled as a racist and as islamaphobe and told to silence our voice for the religion of peace?

Have I ended up in the twilight zone or something?

Oh and some things just are. Like the earth goes round the sun. Like birth and death. Light and dark. They aren't socially constructed.

Slug you could say they were.

We have put our human definition, understanding of what we think they are.

When we evolve things will change.

Cloning could eliminate birth or your definition of birth. The understanding for light and darkness may change too.
We already know that we could say light and darkness when referring to the ray of light and an opec object being in its way creating darkness. Or darkness which religious groups use a social construct to mean evil or the unknown world you don't want to be in.

Death can easily be solved one day by rejuvenation process.

When a person ceases to exist, we as a society have decided to call that death. Something else maybe happening, and it may not be death.

"I suppose I think that science caused atheism (see previous post)"

Because the (ideal) scientific method starts from a position of doubt?

This method is surely more consistent with agnosticism then. And plenty of scientists (Einstein etc) weren't atheists.

Buffy, are you of the opinion that a "lack of belief in God" and "a belief that there is no God" are two different things?

I don't have god in my life in anyway, therefore I'm nothing when it comes to a 'belief' system. For me saying you are Atheist is acknowledging there is a god but you don't believe it.

Nor am I spiritual. I can't stand that nonsense. It's obvious that we are humans living in a planet with multiple diverse eco and living systems, in a solar system that is part of a universe.

It's obvious that humans know right from wrong. It's obvious that animals know this too.

Most religions derive from earth as being an eden like paradise and it's always the woman who is the temptress that destroyed this, always the woman who opens the Pandora's box to release all evil. Always the woman who needs a paternalistic checking. This is the medieval message that still pervades and still troubles us today.

Buffy - "I understand that the way Bert regards her atheism is that it is not part of a system of belief."

How Bert regards her atheism is irrelevant. Even if you find someone in the world who "regards her atheism" as a belief system, it still isn't one.

Lack of food isn't a meal, not having a hobby isn't a hobby in itself, lack of academic qualifications is not a degree, and lack of belief is not a belief system.

Do you understand this?

"One of the comments somebody down the post was that some christian countries in Africa practice FGM. To be honest their isn't one... Some will practice FGM but defiantly not a whole country."

You are wrong. I can think of not one but two:

Ethiopia (63% Christian, 34% Muslim) has 74% FGM rate.

Eritrea (63% Christian, 36% Muslim) has an 89% FGM rate.

Yes, Buffy, I know it's hard

"I see how facts, data and evidence, constraints, etc work. But I do regard them as socially constructed"

They are the opposite of "socially constructed". Facts, data, and evidence are about observable things/events that exist independent of societal expectations.

"there's always room for a voice that's pondering whose evidence, to whose standards, why, what do we mean by that word, why that meaning, etc."

Questions are fine. You should always question what you are told.

Those questions are asked and answered in every discipline.

"Maybe I am a Vulcan."

Vulcans (as in Star Trek) are very literal-minded, scientific and mathematical in their thinking. You are the opposite of a Vulcan. (not an insult - some people would consider it a compliment)

Ethiopia and Eritrea used to be one country. I have just checked, the number of Christians for Ethiopia is actually 43% based on their last census. And 33% are Muslims.

On Ethiopia from reading about it. It's actually the local healers that perform it. Not the church. It's more traditional than Christian or Islam based.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3282605/

On the website above. You will find that the countries that have a very high rate, the more prevalent the Islamic faith the higher number. the rates in Mali is even at 92%. In Nigeria. It's most in the north of the country.

The studies in Ethiopia they do mention one tribe. Which had a very high rate too.

Wherever you "checked", maybe you need to check again so you can see the number of Protestants as well as Orthodox Christians.

Ethiopia - According to the national census conducted in 2007:

Orthodox Christians 43.5%
Protestant 18.6%
Muslim 33.9%
Other 2.6%

Orthodox Christians + Protestants = 43.5% + 18.6% = 62.1%

Figures are the same in Index Mundi, Wikipedia etc

"It's more traditional than Christian or Islam based. "

That is exactly what I said in the post downthread that you criticised:

CoteDAzur Fri 11-Dec-15 14:47:27
Female Genital Mutilation has nothing to do with Islam. It is a local African tradition.

Another African country where Muslims are not the sole perpetrators of FGM:

Liberia (85% Christian, 13% Muslim) has a 66% FGM rate.

Are we all agreed that those who believe in the Caliphate are as bad as those who praise Donald Trump?

What do you mean "believe in the Caliphate"?

There is no Caliphate in Islam anymore. It was abolished when the Ottoman Empire ended and Turkey was founded.

ISIS can declare themselves a Caliphate all they want but the rest of the Muslim world isn't signing up for it, which means there is no Caliphate.

Buffy - have had this debate a few times with various people and have pretty much word for word said what you have posted here - fortunately no one has yet implied that I'm poorly-read, ignorant etc. etc. for regarding disbelief as part of a system of belief.

Fair enough.

Female Genital Mutilation has nothing to do with Islam. It is a local African tradition. Most Muslim countries don't practice it. Some Christian African countries do.

The highest number from that link is Muslim based countries with the exception of Ethiopia and Eritrea.

The difference is you will get more followers who will practice what they are taught by the caliphs than you will do with Donald trump unless he becomes president.

That's not what I asked Cote. And you know it.

And one thing I hate about Christian doctrine is that when they are asked a question they don't like it's often answered with a question.

This is not a general comment about everyone who might be under the impression that atheism is a belief. Buffy was rather ignorant about what an atheist is at the beginning of the thread. I think she has now understood what people have told her how evolution, big bang etc are not an essential part of being an atheist and that it is just about a lack of belief in deities.

She was also saying stuff like "science and evidence are belief systems" and accepted that she was ignorant about certain issues of this debate before this thread, saying "I'll accept the charge of having conflated atheism and science. That has been the entirety of my experience with it. I had no idea, for example, that there are atheist Jews.".

Elendon - No I don't know what you mean. You talked about belief in the Caliphate. It doesn't exist, except in the delusions of grandeur of ISIS. If and when it does one day, I will believe that it exists.