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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How a man becomes a woman. Daily Mail article.

111 replies

kua · 05/12/2015 23:22

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3346063/How-surgeons-perform-sex-change-Eye-watering-animation-rev
eals-stage-man-woman.html

Words fail.

OP posts:
ShortcutButton · 07/12/2015 20:24

Sweetheart, you have no fucking idea what it is to be a woman

Exactly

PourquoiTuGachesTaVie · 07/12/2015 20:27

I also like reading threads like this because it allows me to try and figure out my own thoughts on the subject. I always considered myself totally liberal and believe people should be able to do what they want if it makes them happy but actually this; People are challenging the idea that a surgically created hole can be described as a 'fully functioning vagina' based on whether its possible to put penis in it has summed up why I'm uncomfortable about the issue. Thank you.

venusinscorpio · 07/12/2015 20:49

Yes, this thread does make uncomfortable reading. And that's a very good thing. It doesn't avoid the issue or get tied up with pointless semantics.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 07/12/2015 23:12

I am getting very angry, as i believe we are right, but i also believe we will lose.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 07/12/2015 23:16

I fear that before long doctors forms will have gender on them, and then a secret boxes for the doc to fill in: 'needs cervical smear', 'needs prostrate check' and this will have to be used for any logic that used to run off the sex option.

VagueIdeas · 08/12/2015 00:25

Stumbled across this on Tumblr and had to share it.

VagueIdeas · 08/12/2015 00:25

Why didn't my images attach?! Anyway...

How a man becomes a woman. Daily Mail article.
How a man becomes a woman. Daily Mail article.
VestalVirgin · 08/12/2015 00:38

Another person who has no idea what being a woman is like.

Stupid guy got to be a human being instead of a fucktoy, got privilege handed on a silver platter and has the fucking gall to complain about his dad not calling him "princess" ... my dad never did that to me, and I am very glad he didn't.

And also, I didn't get a bra when I was thirteen, either. Because I am flat chested enough to not need one. Bras are not something magically wonderful only girls get to have, they are a device some women need to avoid back pain, and most women are forced to wear because men don't like to see saggy breasts.

Next he'll complain he never woke up in a puddle of blood. (Which is one of those wonderfully feminine experiences I got to have. Yay!)

Asshole.

cigarsofthepharaoh · 08/12/2015 01:31

Ffs.

A woman's gender isn't handed to her on a plate. She has to fight against it her whole life to avoid being forced into femininity.

Girls get called princess because that's all they are supposed to be: a marriageable, pretty object to be passed around to make men happy, maybe be a prop for male power.

Being bought a bra isn't a magical experience for most girls. You get bullied for developing boobs too fast (slut), too slow (flat-chested, not worth a second glance), for your nipples showing through your school shirt (dirty ho) or even for having your new bra straps showing.

Who the fuck gets an Easter dress nowadays, boy or girl?!

A Barbie is a blonde, big boobed, high heeled clothes horse. Not exactly a role model.

I'm not sure any woman takes her womanhood for granted. My womanhood is having been raped multiple times, having debilitating periods, watching my mother and friends go through horrific miscarriages, being frequently harassed by men from the age of 12 onwards... I've never taken that for granted.

Women have been fighting for centuries. We have made so much progress. It is never done. In fact, it is being taken away by you!

A trans woman isn't a real woman. All those experiences that you've fought for are what makes her a woman. All those injustices and constant reminders of our proper subordinate position are what makes us women. And our vaginas obviously.

We aren't twice the women you are. You aren't women. You are appropriating our sex and our oppression.

cigarsofthepharaoh · 08/12/2015 01:34

I did just read an article by a transwoman about the "vagina" creation surgery. He explained to the reader that after the surgery, it's like "basically amounts to your entire lifetime’s worth of periods condensed into a two month period of recovery. Bloody, hormonal, moody, painful recovery."

YOU DON'T HAVE AN ENTIRE LIFETIME'S WORTH OF PERIODS. YOU DON'T KNOW BLOODY HORMONAL MOODY.

Literally. This surgery is apparently worse than periods. We women don't know how good we've got it apparently.

Tartyflette · 08/12/2015 01:59

This person bled for two months after the surgery? That's nowhere near a lifetime's periods, FFS! Plenty of women bleed for a week every month, some for even longer than a week, over 40 years or so. Two months of bleeding equates to about eight months worth of periods. Lifetime, my arse.

dontcallmecis · 08/12/2015 02:11

Pfft. I bled for 2 months after all my pregnancies.

cigarsofthepharaoh · 08/12/2015 02:12

It just shows how self-involved they are and how little they know about an actual women's experience.

But why bother understanding actual womanhood? They have a not so nice hole and big breasts and a female penis and all the benefits of male socialisation, they're sorted

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 08/12/2015 06:49

I bleed for 1 week, every three weeks i will have had 693 weeks of bleeding by 55.
Whenever men complain about shaving or other manly stuff i offer to swap for periods, not one ever likes the idea.

ShortcutButton · 08/12/2015 07:13

Yeah, but trans-bleeding is so much more womanly than any of youse. So it equates to the same. Obvs.

That poem has really pissed me off Angry

howtorebuild · 08/12/2015 07:22

I wonder if narcissism for some is tied up in the origin body dissatisfaction? Hence the, my suffering is worse, my body is superior to yours. I also noted in the Tara Hudson BBC interview, gaslighting others is a big thing for her, according to her there is something wrong with others heads to not see her as a Woman.

SparklyTinselTits · 08/12/2015 07:24

I remember once when I was a teenager, a group of us were discussing how it was possible to do make to female surgery....someone said they were sure they just cut the end of the penis off, and turn it inside out.

Pretty much the jist of it I guess Confused
Yes it makes my toes curl, but if such drastic surgery makes someone feel "complete" as such, then that's their choice. Although now I completely understand why a high proportion of male to female's don't have the genital surgery!

ShortcutButton · 08/12/2015 07:53

Yy sparkly if that surgery is available and people want it, fill her boots.

I dont think anyone is trying to prevent others having surgery. Just pointing out that isnt a vagina and ot doesnt make a man into a woman

dontcallmecis · 08/12/2015 07:56

I'd prefer people didn't feel the need to have such surgery, but I'd never advocate to outlaw it. That goes for fashioning a 'penis' for FTM trans people, also.

SparklyTinselTits · 08/12/2015 08:10

Oh yeah I completely get that...but that's the closest thing a MTF can get to a "vagina". Must be awful to feel like a woman, look like a woman from the waist up, but then be stuck with a penis that you don't want. If a surgically constructed "hole" makes them feel more female, then I don't really see a problem. I don't think anyone is dim enough to think that it is a real, working vagina, in the sense that a born female has a functioning vagina and organs

dontcallmecis · 08/12/2015 08:15

Actually, sparkly, there are.

Just yesterday I read a, frankly delusional, comment on a trans thread on reddit asserting that the skin actually 'changes into' a self lubricating vagina. With real vagina flora and everything.

venusinscorpio · 08/12/2015 08:19

Howto, I think in many cases there is an element of narcissism and narcissistic rage, yes. But then I think in many cases it's clearly a mental health issue.

OneMoreCasualty · 08/12/2015 08:29

If that tumblr trans woman thinks women are so inferior, why does she want to be known as a woman at all?

noeffingidea · 08/12/2015 08:43

sparkly it often doesn't make them feel whole. Apparently suicide rates remain the same post transition/surgery. Even so, I support the individuals right to bodily automony. I am surprised that surgeons don't question this more though. As medicine stands at the moment it's impossible to create one fully functioning organ out of another. Stem cell research may improve things though.
I agree with the poster who said perhaps more parents should say 'no' to their children. One of my sons was very much into pink sparkly stuff,wearing my high heels, playing with dolls, etc. According to some American parents I should have dragged him off for puberty blockers and hormone treatment. No, I just told him he could wear and play with whatever he wanted indoors. Outside he dressed as a boy. Funny enough, he seems quite happy as a young man nkw.

venusinscorpio · 08/12/2015 08:52

I think the "reversible" puberty blockers thing sets in train a process which it would be very difficult for a young person who may be responding to peer pressure, media etc to exit. And they are risking not being able to have children in future once they go down certain less easily reversible paths. They are too young to make these decisions.