How a man becomes a woman. Daily Mail article.

[kua]

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3346063/How-surgeons-perform-sex-change-Eye-watering-animation-rev
eals-stage-man-woman.html

Words fail.

I can't believe this thread.
Every other thread I've ever seen about making the transition, normally parents posting about having a child who wants this done, is very supportive.
But most of the comments here - calling it vile and asking why it's not illegal, are the total opposite of all the threads I have previously read.

But most of the comments here - calling it vile and asking why it's not illegal, are the total opposite of all the threads I have previously read.

In case you have not noticed, this is the feminist subforum. We prioritise women here.
It is to be expected that you are not used to this, as the rest of the world prioritises males.

Thank you. I know which section I am in. It came up on active - so I assume others will see this thread. I have frequented the feminism section before.
A person wants this. They want this operation.
I didn't realise that this threads views, were the norm, amongst the feminist section.

Is there a similar amount of vitriol here for women that choose to have their genitals destroyed and part of their arm reconstructed as a 'penis'? If not, why not?

Is there a similar amount of vitriol here for women that choose to have their genitals destroyed and part of their arm reconstructed as a 'penis'? If not, why not?

Because they are not trying to invade women's spaces, but instead give up their right to them and expose themselves to male violence in men's spaces.

Why would one feel anything but pity for them?

There are some rare transmen who try to get masculine street cred by assaulting women just like other men do, but one usually only hears about them when they are being sentenced to jail time because of this.

I don't know why the hell I click on these threads, but here I am again, need to have a word with myself.
Some disgusting comments as per.
I always have loads of questions, if someone was born with with no sexual organs but identified/felt they were female, would you except them as being female or do they actually have to have the vagina and ovaries.

I feel a degree of pity for MtF and FtM. It must be awful to be so unhappy with what nature gave you. Ultimately, I see very little difference between the two though. Dysmorphia is the same condition, no matter who suffers it.

oblomov most of us tend to stay away from the "my child is trans" threads, or at least temper our language so as not to upset the OP. But I think it's appropriate to ask why this particular chopping off of healthy body parts is offered and encouraged, but not in the cases of other body dysmophia. Particularly given that the supposed benefits for the individual's mental health are starting to look questionable.

I always have loads of questions, if someone was born with with no sexual organs but identified/felt they were female, would you except them as being female or do they actually have to have the vagina and ovaries.

Intersex is not the same as transgender, and intersex people do not like those comparisons. Some intersex people do not identify as male or female, but as intersex, as that is their lived reality.

Those intersex people who were raised as female usually don't have a penis. Some were subjected to surgery without their consent, to remove the too-small (in the doctor's opinon) penis.

Most of the transwomen males who want access to female spaces do have penises, and no intention to change that. There are even men who claim that their penises are female. Maybe are lucky enough to never have heard of it. Yet they exist.

Males who wish they had female anatomy, but are aware and willing to admit that they do not, and will never have it, seem to be a minority in the transcommunity nowaday.

You highlighted my question but didn't answer it.

Sorry, but I am convinced every parent who gives this line of BS about how their child tried to cut off his penis is full of it. It's a story given by TONS of parents who want to convince everyone that their child really, really needed to swap genders, and it's awfully convenient and convincing to a lot of people, but it's garbage and a lie.

How can I tell? Simple: we neverEVERhear about kids who actually succeeded. Somehow, all these parents leave their 3-6 year old kids with access to scissors, knives, and other sharp implements, which the children access, and then all of them come in and witness the exact same scene: the child with the cutting object precariously close to the penis, at which point the horrified parent rescues the child (and then does a few interviews with the tabloids for good measure).

So where are the medical stories about children who actually succeed in this endeavor? Where are the parents who got there too late? Can you think of any other self-mutilation or self-harm issue in which parents literally always find their child in just the nick of time?

These are parents with Munchausen's by proxy. They are making up stories about their children to garner maximum sympathy from other adults, and other adults are so busy being "open minded" they're letting their brains fall out.

So where are the medical stories about children who actually succeed in this endeavor? Where are the parents who got there too late? Can you think of any other self-mutilation or self-harm issue in which parents literally always find their child in just the nick of time?

Good point. Is this story so prevalent?

I believed that this sort of thing happen occasionally because toddlers tend to do stupid things.
However, if lots and lots of parents tell the same story, and no child actually succeeded, then yes, I'd doubt the truthfulness.

There probably are a few boys who did manage to injure or cut off their penis and/or foreskin as a part of normal toddler "Let's see if I can do this!" stupidity and had to be brought to the hospital to have it sewed back on, and whose parents never tell anyone because it is way too embarrassing.

I remember being ecstatic to find my 'penis' age around 4. Was my clitoris, I thought it would 'grow in'.

I still remember my Mum laughing to herself when I told her.

'I always have loads of questions, if someone was born with with no sexual organs but identified/felt they were female, would you except them as being female or do they actually have to have the vagina and ovaries'

Who is this referring to?

I have never heard of anyone being born with no sexual organs. Intersex people have sexual organs.

This thread is a bit disturbing for many reasons and from many perspectives.

My husband cut his penis with a knife, when he was a lad, as it happens.

He wanted to make the hole bigger so his wee would come out faster. It worked

I remember being ecstatic to find my 'penis' age around 4. Was my clitoris, I thought it would 'grow in'.

Heh. That's what happens if one doesn't tell little girls that they have external sexual organs, too.

He wanted to make the hole bigger so his wee would come out faster. It worked

This ... sounds like authentic toddler logic. He's lucky he wasn't diagnosed with trans. (I presume he was not, as you didn't write "my wife" ;))

I've said this on another thread today, but I had a bit of an epiphany this week when I read something that said gender dysphoria is the only form of dysphoria treated with (mutilating) surgery. Any other type of dysphoria is treated as a mental health issue (hate your legs and want to have them amputated? Sorry, nope) but gender dysphoria isn't. I do wonder why.

I love reading threads like this - it feels like an education to me and also like coming home in that you brilliant women articulate so many of the misgivings I have around this kind of issue.

I can actually pinpoint the moment when I started to really question the whole trans argument - it was a long time ago, when I was working in a lowly admin role for a health authority. It was close to clocking-off time, and I got kept on the phone for 40 minutes after I was due to finish by a trans woman asking me if I knew of any drs in the area who were trans-friendly. We didn't keep info like that, but she wasn't having any of it, and I got the whole spiel of her life, her struggle etc. Which, ok, is fair enough on one level, but I had recently had a miscarriage and was still bleeding and (obviously) grieving my loss, plus I honestly wasn't paid enough to be working after hours like that, particularly given that nothing I could say would help her anyway. I do remember starting to think, some way through, 'Sweetheart, you have no fucking idea what it is to be a woman'. I mean, her experience, though difficult, bore no resemblance to mine whatsoever.

'Sweetheart, you have no fucking idea what it is to be a woman'

That is absolutely how I see it too, cruikshank.

I have nothing against transwomen, truly. They should be free to live the life they want to live, using the name they want to use, wearing the clothes they want to wear. But they will always be men performing femininity. How else can you describe it?

Joan I never used the word vile.
I was quoting a previous poster who had described it as "vile".

I don't promote youngsters or teenagers, or those with ASD going down the transgender route. I believe they are allowed to start this journey too easily.
But I am also saddened that they are so uncomfortable in their own body that they even want to. They seem confused, possibly having mental health issues. And I find it saddening.

I'm not NOT engaging Joan, it's just I think I feel differently, to a lot of the posters.

I agree with all of that, VagueIdeas. She was in a difficult situation and she shouldn't have been and I absolutely agree she should have been able to call herself 'Ms' if she wanted to, and dress how she liked and be accepted as she desired herself to be. But her struggle had nothing to do with my own personal journey, having created life, and carried life and lost life, and sat there 40 mins after my clock-off time worrying about soaking through the maternity pad and just wanting to go home, curl up in a ball and cry for my dead baby. She would never experience that.