Can we have a general Trans thread?

[Brugmansia]

Sorry for another trans thread and I feel this is a bit of an imposition given I don't post really.

Anyway reading FWR over the past few months has re-radicalised me. I've been reading lots here and wider.

Anyway just now been watching TV and there's been some stuff that's given me the rage but didn't seem to fit in existing threads or it's own thread.

Anyway thing that gave me the rage.
On BBC3 program on transgemder teen's the doctor just said "creating a vagina". Are doctors redefining vagina as pocket rather than a passage? Makes me want to screem.

Also Sarah Ditum being no platformed.

Really sorry to hear that element

BPD used to be the diagnosis of choice for anyone, but especially women, who didn't 'fit' or didn't respond to conventional treatments. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. BPD is viewed as 'untreatable' it's not, btw, there are some really good treatments, they're just intensive and expensive so a few psychiatrists I've worked with have basically washed their hands of their BPD clients, so those clients become more and more distressed. MH being so chronically underfunded and PD being so poorly understood doesn't help.

I have a feeling that this level of anger directed towards the trans community is doing more harm than good to perceptions of the feminist movement. It comes across as an unnessarily aggressive internecine conflict.

Live and let live I say. These people are going through incredible challenges and are worthy of support and understanding rather than condemnation and attack.

Some of them want to do more than 'live and let live' though, SlowFJH. I think that's what causes the anger.

I have googled ' Definition of Gender in UK Law'. I can't find the answer though. I'm just interested - does anyone know what it is?

(Of to google 'Definition of Sex in UK Law').

teacup sex is a biological construct (ie defined by chromosomes, primary and secondary sex characteristics), gender means 'being male or female, typically used with reference to social and cultural factors).

If the transwoman Davina Ayrton formally known as David, is found guilty of historical rape of a Woman prior to transition, will a Woman be expected to share prison facilities?

metro.co.uk/2016/01/05/woman-is-accused-of-raping-teen-when-she-was-a-man-5601875/

Davina Aryton is also a convicted sex offender and arsonist according to this article:

http://m.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/10946539.Communityorderrforwomannwhodownloadeddindecentimagessof_children/?ref=rss

As Davina had transitioned when convicted, do the child porn offences get recorded as having been committed by a woman and included in those stats, or are separate stats kept for transgender individuals?

Sex is innate to almost every cell in your body and is determined by chromosomes.

Gender is the role into which you are slotted even from before firth now, where females are expected to conform to feminine things and males to masculine ones. Not conforming to those firmly and culturally defined norms causes conflict and, depending on the culture, some fairly draconian punishments.

Sex is reality. Gender is utter bullshit.

Sarah Ditum is going to be talking about the impact on women tonight on Newsnight.

I'm sure none of us would want our children to called "fucking freaks".

This sort of language and rage provides an entertaining side-show to those who have no interest in supporting the principles of inclusion, respect and equality.

I'm sure none of us would want our children to called "fucking freaks".

I'm sure none of us would want our female children to be called 'fish' which is equally as offensive. Or to be threatened with death because they are defending the rights of women. Both are happening. None of this language helps either side. Do not pretend that feminists are solely to blame for this hostility.

This sort of language and rage provides an entertaining side-show to those who have no interest in supporting the principles of inclusion, respect and equality

I have no interest in supporting the inclusion of male bodied people in female only spaces. I respect the choices of others to wear what they want, fuck who they want, name themselves as they wish. I do not respect the wish to be called a woman because you feel like one. That erases the daily experience of billions of women who are treated unequally understatement due to their sex

The 'Freaks' comment was regarding a link to Autogynephiles, and not transgender people in general.

CultureSucksDownWords I don't believe that separate stats are kept for offences committed by transgender offenders.

Oh come on. Are we really supposed to accept that 'Davina' is a woman? To not object if they walk into a womans changing room and get changed next to us, or our teenage daughters? Davina is as much a woman as Stephonknee is, ie, not at all.
It really is a total load of bollocks, and the general public (well, women) are being played for fools.

ChiefClerkDrumknott
We're talking about a tiny fraction of what is already a tiny minority. By arguing from the extremes you give ammunition to those who listen to the "fucking freaks" comments and say inwardly with smug satisfaction "kettle ... pot"

During the Apartheid era, I'm sure the South African regime rubbed their hands with glee whenever they saw even a hint enmity between the blacks and the Indian / coloured communities. Some Indians mistakenly bought into the lie of blacks "invading their Indian Only spaces" (toilets, water fountains, waiting rooms) with fears of including assault and rape.

I'm sure there is fault on both sides. But this conflict is sucking the oxygen out of a lot of other feminist debate at the moment.
It's interesting that this thread has had more contribution than any other here.

Personally I think it gives the tacit opponents of feminism with a very big stick to beat you with.

I disagree slowFDH
I am no fan of feminists although I hold some feminist views. Mumsnet and specifically the views of some mumsnet feminists on adopters firmly alienated me
It is this issue that has brought me to the feminist section on mumsnet
I believe these laws will put women and children in danger and silence voices discussing women's issues
I think, therefore, it will bring women to feminism not turn them away

Sorry slow
It's slowFDH

You might be right. I am not so sure.

I agree with you Iamthewhore . I have never posted on feminism before, in fact I find it a little bit scary.

Do people like SlowFJH go on trans activist sites (of which there are many, many more than there are sites where you can be even a tiny bit critical of transgender theory) and tell the people there to be a bit nicer? Do they tell them to stop wishing death and rape and dying in fires upon women? Or is it just here where women have to be lovely and nice, all the while their existence is being redefined.

I think this is an important point. Women are socialized to be nice, empathize, be conciliatory. Feminists are told we're shrill, unlikeable and rude. Rejecting those labels when we're fighting for what we need is hard. It's difficult being unpopular and on the wrong 'side'.

But being told you're wrong, overreacting and won't win any friends is part of this. Otherwise we would just confirm and shut up. Because that's the best way after all.

This is an interesting development....
www.independent.co.uk/voices/will-smiths-son-as-the-new-face-of-louis-vuitton-womenswear-might-seem-progressive-but-its-a6797461.html

I have to say my first thought about Smith was that modelling is one the very few jobs that women get paid more than men. All solved by men modelling women's clothes!

Sarah Ditum is going to be on Newsnight tonight talking about proposed changes to gender identity legislation.