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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

proposed legislation in scotland - licensed saunas and legalised prostitution

409 replies

weeonion · 30/11/2015 12:32

A consultation is currently happening in Scotland to make charges to the laws around prostitution, brothel keeping and pimping. No matter what you think - it would be good to have your voice, experiences and opinions heard in this. They have just extended the deadline to the 8th December so if time has been an issue for you - you now have another week!

Responses prepared electronically should be sent by e-mail to:
[email protected]
Responses prepared in hard copy should be sent by post to:
Jean Urquhart MSP
Room M3.20
Scottish Parliament
Edinburgh
EH99 1SP
You may also contact Jean Urquart’s office by telephone on (0131) 348 5052

OP posts:
OneMoreCasualty · 10/12/2015 14:59

Ie work on the social acceptability side so that any reduction in legal sex work doesn't fuel illegal sex work.

Fox hunting, wearing fur, battery hens - all things that were well established and now invoke society's opprobrium to a greater or lesser extent. Why shouldn't that
Opprobrium fall on men who want to rent orifices to wank into?

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:00

So do it for free.

Buying a kidney is illegal, but donating one is fine - for exactly this reason, to stop exploitation of vulnerable people.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:00

I can't agree with further stigma on marginalised women

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:01

The stigma isn't on the women!

The stigma needs to be on the men! The women are doing nothing wrong, the men are. PROSECUTE THEM! Don't reward them by legitimising their hobby!

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:04

But if you're aim is to reduce the social acceptability of sex work then it is stigmatising sex workers. We already are stigmatised, just look at previous comments where it's suggested I'm suffering cognitive dissonance because my choice is invalid, or as the other poster said there's something wrong with me and that I'm having my orifices raped multiple times a day.

The stigma is clear on these pages

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:08

Do what for free?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:09

Sex?
I do. But I sell a service that includes sex as my job also

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:12

Prostitution is legal in the UK because my body=my choice.
Trafficking and controlled prostitution are not.
Same as domestic slavery is illegal and maids are not.
You don't need to ban one to tackle the other

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:18

To those claiming sex workers are at fault for perpetuating violence and suffering trafficking victims/coerced women endure:

What if sex workers weren't around? there'd be a massive surge in demand that was being unfulfilled therefore traffickers would stand to make a far larger amount which would greatly increase trafficking.

vesuvia · 10/12/2015 15:37

SapphireStarfish wrote - "you have no knowledge or experience at all", implying that other people should not be allowed to give their opinions and criticisms of the negative impacts that prostitution has on the lives of many women.

Why is the default position of people involved in prostitution to come onto anonymous internet forums and say this to other anonymous posters they know absolutely nothing about?

Would they say this to people they have never met, if they worked as e.g. a beautician? After all, according to these prostitution supporters, prostitute is "just a job like any other". If so, lots of people do have knowledge and experience of just-a-job-like-any-other type jobs that must, by definition, be transferable to discussions about prostitution, which can form the basis for valid opinions about allegedly just-like-any-other-job prostitution. Lots of people have knowledge and experience of those meetings with managers and those health and safety regulations that must be followed, which must of course also take up so much of every prostitute's working hours. Hmm

Or ... perhaps the reality is that prostitute is not just a job like any other, even if some prostitutes can't recognise and accept that.

Having no knowledge or experience of being a politician who campaigns for the introduction of the Swedish Model has never stopped pro-prostitution people from giving their negative opinions and criticisms of those politicians. Pimps, punters and prostitutes with no experience of the Swedish Model don't see their lack of experience of the model as a valid reason to stay silent about it.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:40

I don't think I said no one is entitled to an opinion. Simply that if you've no experience of something you've likely less knowledge on the matter.
I'd never tell a doctor or builder I know more about aspects of their industry

vesuvia · 10/12/2015 15:44

SapphireStarfish wrote - "What if sex workers weren't around? there'd be a massive surge in demand that was being unfulfilled therefore traffickers would stand to make a far larger amount which would greatly increase trafficking."

There is a shortage of doctors and nurses. Do you expect traffickers to fill the demand?

Do you really believe that your comment describes prostitution as "just a job like any other"?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:46

What? That makes no sense, what have traffickers got to do with doctors?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:47

Which comment?

vesuvia · 10/12/2015 15:47

SapphireStarfish wrote - "Prostitution is legal in the UK because my body=my choice."

That is not a reason why prostitution is legal in the UK.

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:48

I don't agree - I think prostitution is legal in the UK because the patriarchy like being able to buy women's bodies.

There are plenty of things that I can't choose to be paid to do with my body.

I think we can change how society things - as people have said above, drink driving, battery hens, smacking children. I think that we can change whether it is socially acceptable to pay someone for sex, and I think we should.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:48

So do you not see that prostitution and forced /coerced prostitution is different?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:50

OK so as I said how abolishing sex work necessary?
There will still be demand which will encourage even greater trafficking as ordinary women won't want to break the law.
You don't crack a nut with a sledgehammer

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:51

I think that for every one person who is freely making the choice there are countless more that don't have the choice (through poverty or trafficking)

How many people freely choosing to be paid for sex is enough to warrant all the people who don't? All the women propositioned in the street because they happen to be unknowingly walking by a brothel? Or abused in clubs because some men get the attitude that women are there to be bought?

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:52

It doesn't really matter if anyone sees it as a viable job to be honest. Sex workers do, and I think most of us know there's always going to be extremists that deny this, I can accept that

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:54

That's not supported by the evidence though is it? Battery hens didn't go underground, there weren't secret drink and drive clubs, people just stopped doing it. I think men can stop paying for sex if it becomes socially unacceptable too.

From what I've read, trafficking in Germany is through the roof now that the German super brothels exist, because it's not a job like any other. Most people don't want to do it, so finding staff now that you've increased demand means that the criminals step in and supply it.

GreenTomatoJam · 10/12/2015 15:55

Ahh. So the argument is that you're alright, you don't want to change, so sod the poverty stricken people forced into it - they should just get on with it.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 15:58

Yes but do you really think that making sex work illegal is going to combat sexism?
Sex work gives many women independence and freedom which means for many they aren't vulnerable, and for many I've known it's enabled them to exit a violent relationship

So I'm not denying sex work is bound to have some influence on sexism (of course it does) but it also has many good points for women too.

It's like all the pro lifers situation in America, you may not agree with sex work/abortion but outside of working to give help to those in trouble (forced prostitution ) you really should respect others choices

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 16:01

Of course I want change!
My involvement in sex work is nothing to do with trafficking.

As I said

If us prostitutes weren't around there'd be a massive surge in demand that was being unfulfilled therefore traffickers would stand to make a far larger amount which would greatly increase trafficking.

SapphireStarfish · 10/12/2015 16:06

OK you want change, I disagree with you wanting to abolish sex work, but putting differences aside ; of course men can go without paying for sex, but do you think that is going to happen? I just can't see it ever happening. The stigma around prostitutes is probably at an all time high for Western civilisation compared to past centuries, and prostitution is still alive and kicking.
So why not focus on what can be changed, and help trafficking victim'support without u necessarily taking away some women's last choice for feeding their kids?