Why do men do this?

[TooOldForGlitter]

Of course, NAM, but really, why? It's 7.40 Saturday morning. A new nursery is being built down the road and its on my dog walking path. I walk by and there are two vans parked up on the pavement, clearly blokes about to start work on the new nursery. They just do this thing when they see you coming down the road and start to stare. As if to see if you'll look away first, or get your 'phone out and pretend to be on the phone. Its as if they don't want you to feel like you can walk down a pavement without feeling uncomfortable. I'm not going to go into all the minute things they do I think I'm just saying, I'm not alone in seeing and feeling this am I?

See you, I assume you know the second thread you mention was based on a distortion of this OP?

squidz
His exact words were,
"What you doing in a place like this? You wouldn't know how to use most of this stuff" and laughed with his buddies.

I wouldn't say 'come upnto me' but walked past and adopted the "I'm hard" pose as we got nearer sort of thingy, its hard to describe in text.

Onemorecasualty
I didn't when I was first reading it, but I got clued in by the end.

I only found and read this thread when it bumped in the Active thread feed.

Ah, I see!

Why was coffeeisnectar's first post deleted? I don't understand mnhq sometimes. It wasn't a shocking post.

Onemorecasualty

?

I'm confused again, I feel you were going somewhere and haven't?

squidzin I reported the post and am glad it was deleted.

Fairenuff

The issue with nodding and smiling at men who are staring at you is that, depending on what is actually going on in their heads, it can be taken as an invitation for them to become more sexually aggressive. They think you're acknowledging their advances and you are interested in them, when that isn't what most women intend with a nod and smile.

A smile costs nothing.

Really? Really?

No it costs a lot, it costs my self respect, I don't want to smile, I don't want another person to think I have to do what they say just because they are entitled to my smile.

Should I smile if I have just had a cancer diagnosis, heard about the death of a parent, was raped by someone who looks just like you? Or even if I just don't feel like it.

I know the stare, OP, I know exactly what you mean. I'm amazed that some women have so internalised the conditioning that they think they're obliged to smile to appease a threat, and that's A-OK. If you're fine with being obliged to convey to strangers with submissive body language that you accept their dominance, then crack on, but I won't be partaking.

The difference between someone making a human connection, ie someone you don't know smiling at you because you've both just noticed a cute puppy or a rainbow and you both smile at each other to acknowledge the moment, and the aggressive dominant stare-down some men like to throw about is chalk and cheese.

I have a very piercing stare, I call it The Cold Blue Stare of Death, and it can come over as very aggressive, so I have to deploy it very carefully, and never point it at a strange man because I know from experience that a certain type of man will read it as a threat (and correctly so because if an unknown man is approaching me in the street I am probably on threat alert).

Exactly sashh.

I do quite often smile at complete strangers, like many posters above. But only when I want to and there is a connection.

How sad to report that other thread.

I am old-ish now and lucky in that I can do the raising-one-eyebrow thing, which I think (hope) shiws some disdain.

If they keep staring until I am really close I stare right back at them and may say a grumpy "morning" or "hello" or nothing if I feel pissed off.

I do have to psych myself up a little bit, but I feel strongly I refuse to be intimidated.

Cannot believe I have been dealing with this crap for 30+ yrs , part and parcel of being a woman. Oh joy.

Which other thread Vulcan?

It was a TAAT, Plays, started by an early poster on this thread, who put her own spin on the OP as she considers this OP to be talking nonsense and she should just smile FFS.

On it, VulcanWoman called feminists "paranoid and obsessive" which I thought was sweet.

Vulcan, TAATs are often deleted - if you disagree with an OP, you do so on the thread. HTH.

Plays "if a man stares at you" thread.

"The average man that stares at women is just as likely to stare at other men too. Especially at men like me. They size you up, judge your masculinity and will often pass judgement and make comment. It's not the same as its not sexual, I want to say its with violence but not really violence? Almost like they look at a woman and judge if they could sleep with them but they look at men as if judging if they can fight them, does that make sense? It's different but similar and equally intimidating and upsetting. "

I would wager that the men who stare at women wanting a smile (?) and those who stare at men and adopt the "hard man" pose to be intimidating, are the same men.
In my experience it's not 90%, nowhere near, most people just mind there own business.

Was the other thread deleted? I cant find it.

It probably is the same men and for some of the same reasons - status display, dominance etc etc.

Isn't it depressing that taking the angle that men DO know what this behaviour is and what it means, and could control it if they wanted to, is taken as the man-hating response? Personally, I think it's much more man-hating to say "ahhh, they don't know what they're doing, they just need a smile from you, poor dears".

Sometimes a lot of us men can be intimidating without meaning too. I recall once when living in a gated community of flats in an affluent area when on approach to a narrow set of stone steps there was a woman struggling to get a pram up them. I asked could I help, and she visibly stiffened. Generally it was one of those awkward moments for all concerned, but I wouldn't hold it against her. I just helped get the pram up and went on my way with as much alacrity as I could muster. Personally I think it's obvious when another human being is uncomfortable.

In my case I don't think anyone was at fault per se. It's just one of those things. To put it another way I am absolutely batty about dogs, but I'd always exercise caution when faced with a dog I am not familiar with. Doesn't make me a hater of dogs, quite the reverse.

Also right of association is foundational to a free society. The only potential exemption is we may have to interact with people in the workplace, we may need to get on with people professionally we may not choose to on our own time, but even then there should be limits.

I will echo sentiments above that despite being a big bloke (and perhaps maybe because of it), I do get these territorial challenge stares and barged into every now and again.

I will echo sentiments above that despite being a big bloke (and perhaps maybe because of it), I do get these territorial challenge stares and barged into every now and again.

This, absolutely (for full disclosure, I'm a man). I think problem in this instance isn't men as such, it's a particular kind of fucking twat (who tend almost exclusively to be men of course). Just yesterday one of them sat down opposite me on the train and started randomly kicking me in the shins.

I think a lot of men turn into twats when they put on builders uniforms

I think a lot of men turn into twats when they put on builders uniforms

I think that's a bit snobby and classist to be honest. Some builders are twats. most aren't. same as any other class of people. I worked on a building site briefly when I was a young man. My colleagues were one total bellend and half-a-dozen other lovely, gentle people.