Why isn't rape a hate crime?

[grimbletart]

Just that really.
I was reading about the reported increase in hate crimes involving race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and transgenderism.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34515763

To be a rapist you really have to hate or despise women or you couldn't inflict such pain and humiliation on them.

I'm sure plenty of posters will come along and say I'm impractical, wrong, daft or whatever, but to me, as well as issues such as control, entitlement etc. rape really is a crime of hate.

So why not?

The court would look at surrounding facts and circumstances. If say it was part of a robbery or a drugs turf war or say the Asian man had been peddling drugs within the community or had sexually assaulted the child of one of the white men there may be no racial element at all.

It is possible to dislike a person of a different ethnicity just because they are actually deeply unpleasant whatever their race.

In the US (broad generalization here; there are many jurisdictions), there would need to be evidence of "state of mind" that the person was targeted because he or she was a member of the protected category, so, for example, racist comments made before or during commission of the crime or membership in a hate group, possession of hate literature, etc. would be indicators. In my state, homelessness is a protected category; this was added because of several high profile cases in which people went out specifically looking for homeless people to attack.

I'm not clear what your point is.

The law recognises certain crimes can be made worse because of the perpetrator's attitude to the victim. The law does not automatically assume a fight between an Asian man and a white man is always trigered by a racial motivation (and always on the part of the white man). It could a racially motivated trigger by one or other or neither. A robbery at an Asian shop is not always automatically racially motivated.

If you apply hate crime to all male rapists of all female victims what are you achieving?

I'm assuming you don't want to have some rapes which are treated as hate crimes and others which aren't?

Would you say Ched Evans hated his victim? And think about your answer without applying feminist theories of systemic oppression but solely in relation his status as perpetrator to her as victim.

He could not have cared less for her safety or well being, he cared nothing about her but that's not hate in the way the law looks at it.

Sorry I was replying to Buffy Not Seneca

I agree that violence against women is motivated primarily by misogyny, but I think as a political matter it is difficult in the context of how hate crime legislation is applied to make all sexual assaults against women hate crimes. In the US, in jurisdictions where gender is a protected category, clearly some, but not all, sexual assaults could be prosecuted as hate crimes. For example, if a women's rights activist were targeted for her activism and raped as punishment, that could be prosecuted as a hate crime in addition to the rape.

Not really - did I get terminology wrong hence the emoticons?

We can't apply "theories of systematic oppression" or misogynistic views to rape to help define it as a Hate Crime. Because both men and women are offenders and victims. There is not one defining trait of a rape victim per se. So to say rape is a Hate Crime, just can't be true. To ask "Is a man that rapes a woman a Hate Crime" - well that's different.

A question, in English law and Scots law, rape is defined as a gendered crime, right? In my state, the word "rape" does not actually appear in the statutes, and the laws, as written are gender-neutral. There are different types of sexual assault, of which penetration is one.

Yes - but the question OP asked what "Why isn't rape a hate crime? Just that really ... To be a rapist you really have to hate or despise women or you couldn't inflict such pain and humiliation on them."

Her OP implies that only women are raped - which isn't true. So that's why I am saying the answer to "why isn't rape a hate crime?" because by definition it isn't a Hate Crime. "Why isn't rape a Hate Crime?" is a different question to "Why isn't male-on-female rape a Hate Crime?"

Definitely agree there should be a class of hate crime which is crimes against women because they are women. This should certainly include cyber-stalking/bullying as well as rape.

Well, according to legislation Rape is defnied:

(1)A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis
(b)B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

Legislation.gov.uk

so, the target of rape could be a man or woman - so unless there is a shared characteristic/trait of both men and women in general, then Hate Crime can't be broadly applied to rape.

I think there is a difference between these questions:

• what does the law say?
• what do we (maybe each one of us) think is right?
• why does a gap exist between question 2 and question 1 in a particular case?

To me, grimble's question is of the third type, and that's why it's so interesting. It's an invitation to reflect on what power structures/ideological investments might be at stake in defining certain things as 'hate crimes' and certain things as 'not hate crimes'.

Well. The law says for it to be Hate Crime, the offender attacked the victim because of a particular reason:

"Hate crime involves any criminal offence which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a personal characteristic. Hate crime can be motivated by disability, gender identity, race, religion or faith and sexual orientation."

Gov.uk site

So, probably a person's sex should definitely be in that list as one can be motivated to commit a crime because of someone's sex.

But even if sex was on the list. It doesn't then follow that all rape is a Hate Crime.

Well, the problem is the list could be never ending for Hate Crime :/

Is that thug beating up the "ginger" kid, a hate crime? He's only doing it because the kid has ginger hair.

What if I think all people who wear tattoos are tossers and verbally abuse them and say "oi, tattooed person, F OFF YOU C**T"

There's perhaps fine line between Vicitmisation and Hate Crime?

To be a rapist you really have to hate or despise women or you couldn't inflict such pain and humiliation on them.

You're taking a far too literal and simplistic meaning of 'Hate Crime' - it has a specific meaning in law. You're interpreting it as a crime that is done because of hate, which is not the case, otherwise pretty much every case of assault, ABH, GBH, vandalism and murder would be hate crimes; we know this isn't the case.

Regarding inflicting pain and humiliation: you're thinking from the point of view of the victim (obviously - it's not likely anyone wants to relate to the point of view of the rapist). The rapist may not care one way or the other - they're obviously not a compassionate sort of person (I'm of the opinion that anyone who wilfully and personally inflicts suffering on another - whether rape or non-sexual violence - has something wrong with their brain).

slugs why can't a rape be prosecuted as a hate crime?

It can be, if for example you rape someone because they're Buddhist.