Something started me thinking about girls and eating this evening.

[BertrandRussell]

I have a 14 year old boy. As all the received wisdom, and Mumsnet agree, he EATS. Constantly. He is always hungry. He is wiry and fit and strong and does not have an ounce of fat on him. His dad says he remembers how incredibly hungry he was at this age, and how his mother struggled to feed him and his brother on a limited budget. When you mention teenage boys,people smile indulgently and share empty fridge anecdotes. It's just how it is.

But 4 years ago, I had a 14 year old girl. Presumably if it's all abour. teenagers and growing, she was just as hungry? But she didn't eat like her brother does. She had a good appetite, and enjoyed food, but I bet if she had got herself a bowl of cereal an hour after dinner, I would have queried it. I would have pointed out that she had just had dinner, suggested she had an apple or a drink. And nobody ever does the fridge anecdotes about girls.

So what's considered OK and is indulged for boys isn't for girls. Girls are supposed to control their intake. Maybe even put up with being hungry? Is there possibly something here about why girls eat secretly, are more likely to have eating disorders.....? I've just thought of this, so it's. Bit disjointed. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Bertie- see I find the idea of a fridge full of leftovers would make me anxious.

If I make a meal I expect it all to be eaten when I make it.

It really pusses me off when do cooks and serves, say chips and then when I'm finished what's on my plate he'll say ' oh do you want more? There's more still on the baking tray in the kitchen' aaa! If there's good, bleedin serve it ffs! It really gets me.

When I was a teen I got the biggest portion in the house. My calorie requirements were high than my parents so that makes sense.

I can't even imagine growing up in the kind of sexist environments described above. It sounds like the dark ages. We're women on their periods banished too?!

'Have the men had enough?' By Margaret Forster. It resonated with my mum, how the men in the family were always saved first and best, and told to eat up, while the women and girls made do with what's left and always, always, kept an eye on their own and each other's weight / appearance. I remember a friends mother telling her 'you're spreading that straight onto your hips, you know' as she buttered some bread...I couldn't imagine her saying that to a son.

I have two boys, both of whom have always been tall, big and well developed for their ages. The oldest is (i hope) due to shoot up again as he looks like he has put on a little weigh recently. I've reduced his snacks and sugar intake, and keeping an eye on it, while not making a big deal of it, as I hope I would for a girl.

This is interesting for me as I am underweight at the moment, partly due to anxiety issues, and it's quite hard to 'train' myself to eat more, rather than just adding junk food.

To go on a bit of a tangent, on the mars bar vs ham sandwich thing, there are also social messages regarding 'treats' and 'junk food' and these terms often seem to mean the same thing. But anecdotally, I only really hear women talking about food as a treat (which is often 'junk food', mainly sweet things). Which is different to say, alcohol, which seems more gender neutral (other than choice of drink, pint for the men, glass of wine for the ladies and all that of course). Does this ring true for anyone else?

Also anecdotally, I've never heard anyone talk about 'growing girls' needing to eat more (unless they're pregnant) - only that a 'growing boy' needs to eat more.

Out of curiosity what's the common procedure for serving food in the UK to a child of say 7-10 years old? Is food served to a kids plate then given to them to eat with, more or less, the expectation they finish what is given? Or is food provided for the kids to choose and serve to their own plate, with an expectation being they choose a reasonable mix of foods (ie not 100% peas for dinner)?

I was brought up in a household where we were served plated food but DH 's family used serving dishes. I do serving dishes occasionally. I give them what I know they'll eat so, for example, I leave avocado off the youngest's plate.

My family did serve yourself from a central dish, I recall that quite clearly as it would cause arguments if my sister got to table first, as she would pile half the food onto her plate & then would be made to put enough back for the rest of us to have even portions. We were often short of money so someone taking a bigger portion meant everyone else went short. Fruit was also something we would come to blows over.

I don't recall my father ever obviously feeling entitled to more food - we were all brought up as rabid tiny feminists so would have piled into him if he'd suggested it.

So I can recognise elements of what Bertie described in the sense of feeling anxious about food being limited and someone taking more than their share, but without the gendered elements. Though I met plenty of that attitude at school.

My family always served up at the table, and we ate together every evening and twice at the weekend. Usually my mother served everything, except for roast dinners where my father carved (an essential male skill according to my mother). Everyone got relatively small helpings and there was usually seconds, only served when everyone had finished. There were usually left overs which were kept for future meals.

dh's family ate together only at the weekend and did central serving dishes. Everyone took all they thought they would eat, and often left food on their plates which would be thrown away.

dh and I eat as a family once every day and use a mixture of dishes on the table and self serve in the kitchen. When dd was younger and fussier we pretty much always served buffet style, now we're more likely to do self serve because it's less effort. I do get cross if people take more than they can eat or take more than their share and deprive others.

Food as a teenager, what a minefield that was for me, still feel mighty resentful about it as an adult.

I spent ages 10 to 18 with a foster family, farmers & also very involved with the local sports club.

My days were spent going to school, then afternoons physical labour on the farm, followed by dancing/gymnastics/ trampolining/outdoor athletics in the evenings.

My mother and two older sisters were (& still are) utterly obsessed with mine & their own weight/looks & despite my constant level of activity & healthy appetite was harrangued & shamed endlessly.

Loud pointed comments at dinner 'bibi is getting fat, she'll show us up at the dance show at this rate as the costumes are tight, do NOT let her have seconds or mayonnaise'

Bags of raw carrots left out for me to 'snack' on etc

In total contrast to my brother who was and is grossly overweight - men's eating in general was indulgently encouraged & the women's intake monitored & judged.

This after my nearly dying as a young child due to being starved to skeletal proportions (a history that foster parents were well aware of)

Completely agree with the OP, even now pointed comments are made when i choose to demolish a large sausage & bacon roll in the office on a friday (half a pig in a french stick for the men)

Yes there is definitely so much in this. I think this is why low-carbing has been so enthusiastically embraced by, and so liberating for, so many women. Not only does it actually work in keeping you slim, but it releases women to eat essential high quality proteins and fats while still "playing by the rules".

filling up on sugars and carbs is very bad for you, it does make you fat (ironically as it is likely that a person with cravings for sweet things has been limiting her intake of actual proper food, whether through guilt or lack of money) and historically, globally, it has been lower status people who have eaten carbs rather than protein.

My mother always tutted over my supposed fatness (nothing at all in this day and age, though I was chunky for the time - I went to school with children who were stick thin and while some of them were just healthy and very wiry, honestly I think some of them didn't get enough to eat). I think this has contributed to my food issues and ultimately my weight issues. I read recently a study showing that people who think they are fat - whether or not they are - are more inclined to over eat. This is emotionally very true to anyone who has experienced this. We must be so careful with our children, it's a minefield.

Not sure that filing up on Carbs is very bad for you - too much is bad for you, but that's what 'too much' means.

btw Sugars are Carbohydrates. Carbs = energy. Whatever carbohydrate you consume - other than cellulose, of course, the body has to break it down to the single monosaccharide to enter it into the respiration 'energy' pathways.

That's not the fate of all carbohydrates as there are many structural uses, but essentially if you want a lot of immediate energy in order to carry out heavy work - you're better off getting it straight from consuming carbohydrates. If you have excess carbs, then the body will store it firstly as glycogen (a limited ability) and secondly as fat.

Eating a mars bar a day is fine - if your energy demand requires it.

Food was always played when I was growing up and we've always done it with our dcs.

I've never really thought of doing it any differently.

Then again we don't really eat the kind of food that comes like that ie meat and 2 veg type meals.

Letting dcs self serve sounds very stressful!