Something started me thinking about girls and eating this evening.

[BertrandRussell]

I have a 14 year old boy. As all the received wisdom, and Mumsnet agree, he EATS. Constantly. He is always hungry. He is wiry and fit and strong and does not have an ounce of fat on him. His dad says he remembers how incredibly hungry he was at this age, and how his mother struggled to feed him and his brother on a limited budget. When you mention teenage boys,people smile indulgently and share empty fridge anecdotes. It's just how it is.

But 4 years ago, I had a 14 year old girl. Presumably if it's all abour. teenagers and growing, she was just as hungry? But she didn't eat like her brother does. She had a good appetite, and enjoyed food, but I bet if she had got herself a bowl of cereal an hour after dinner, I would have queried it. I would have pointed out that she had just had dinner, suggested she had an apple or a drink. And nobody ever does the fridge anecdotes about girls.

So what's considered OK and is indulged for boys isn't for girls. Girls are supposed to control their intake. Maybe even put up with being hungry? Is there possibly something here about why girls eat secretly, are more likely to have eating disorders.....? I've just thought of this, so it's. Bit disjointed. Does anyone have any thoughts?

300 calories is a generous second helping of dinner. Neither boys nor girls should be eating a Mars bar every day.

To be fair, I don't think it's just that they're different, but there is a difference - which complicates it a bit.

Wild generalization by a non-expert: but from personal experience, when women are educated into portion control, it is about how they look for others. My grandmother STILL fusses about the weight of my aunt, who has early onset dementia and can barely speak, because she doesn't look nice. She views respectability as looking good for the male gaze, even though eating unhealthily is one of the few pleasures my aunt still has left (her decline is frighteningly fast).

Whereas when men are taught about eating, it is about how to be healthy and strong for themselves. Though I suspect this may be shifting in some parts.

No of course they shouldn't be eating a Mars bar a day. But putting any difference in our approach to girls and boys and food down to boys needing on average 272 more calories is simplistic in the extreme.

The marginal difference is actually quite significant when you think about the percentage of our daily calories that we burn just maintaining life, before any activity.

I ate constantly as a teenager, never put on weight, I didn't do any sport or games.

My teenage son had a tiny appetite and still has at 25.

So do you think there is no difference in the way men and women view food and the general view of our society about men and woman eating? Nothing for feminists to be interested in here at all?

That link also says 'However, these figures are only a guide. Young people might need more or less energy depending on a number of factors, including how physically active they are.'. Girls aren't encouraged to do sport in the same way boys are so that will have an impact on their level of activity. I rather suspect that girls doing masses of sport will need a similar amount of calories as boys doing the same amount.

I don't know Bertrand and I don't really care.

You said you would have commented on your daughter if she had helped herself to a bowl of cereal after a meal. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't even have noticed. I certainly didn't monitor what my son's girlfriend ate or when she ate if she was staying over.

You seem to wanting a thread to veer towards an "Oh yes , isn't it awful how society monitors what girls eat" but if you're doing that yourself in your own home perhaps you need to look at your own reasons for doing it. Sorry but "social pressure " being the reason you would have applied different standards to your own daughter in your own home is a bit weak.

I know that I have an intrinsic different attitude to how my 16 year old twins eat.

They are 16.

Other than providing meals in the evenings and weekends, I pay little attention to what DS eats. I often hear him ferreting in the kitchen but don't police.

DD also eats a lot. And I notice (in a way that I really do not with her brother). I have to make an effort not to mention it sometimes.

I imagine lots of girls grow up in homes where not only do people notice, they also comment.

I was always hungry after meals as a teenager as the portions were too small. However I didn't really realise this at the time and I didn't expect it to be an option to have more food. I wouldn't have dreamt of making myself a sandwich or something like that after dinner. My mum wasn't strict, at all! So I don't know where this expectation came from. Perhaps because we didn't have much money? I'm always amazed and quite shocked when DH uses something such as raw chicken or mince to cook and make something for lunch. To me, those are dinner ingredients, not for using on lunch. I was amazed the first time I encountered somebody ordering two burgers in McDonalds because I'd never realised that you could do that - it sounds really odd and stupid, doesn't it? I think I just had an idea of what a "meal" is and thought that you could never go past that. I used to and I still do sometimes get frustrated at myself for feeling hungry because I've had what I consider a "meal" and hence, feeling hungry is wrong. I don't think I have an eating disorder but certainly it's not a very logical or probably healthy way to think.

So I always find it amazing when people comment that their boys just eat and eat because I just can't seem to get past that mental block. But I didn't have brothers growing up and perhaps that is why? DS is only six so maybe I'll understand when he's older.

"You seem to wanting a thread to veer towards an "Oh yes , isn't it awful how society monitors what girls eat" but if you're doing that yourself in your own home perhaps you need to look at your own reasons for doing it. Sorry but "social pressure " being the reason you would have applied different standards to your own daughter in your own home is a bit weak."

Yes of course I do. That's one of the things this thread is about. Why is "social pressure" not something that might have affected me in my own home?

And I do have a teenage (half) brother now, he is built like a rugby player and really does inhale food. It's quite amazing to see. But I wonder if he's eating because the food is there and he fancies it, or because he's actually hungry. I could easily eat more than I do, but I like to pace myself and try to save leftovers. I tend to undercater with the reasoning being that people can always go back for seconds. DH tends to overcater and doesn't seem to worry about wasting huge quantities of food, and that bothers/worries me as well. To me eating an extra large portion because it tastes nice and you want to prolong the experience of eating is a waste. Eating a large portion because you are hungry is fine, but there is a HUGE gulf between pleasantly satisfied and so stuffed you can barely move. I think it bothers me when people go past that line just for the pleasure of eating because I find it quite selfish especially if it means they get a larger portion of a food I also enjoy, eat all of the leftovers removing my option of an easy dinner night, or just eat more without leaving food for other people.

YY to families where people comment. My best friend at secondary school had two older brothers who ate loads but when she overate her father affectionately called her his little pig. She hated it but never told him. And was constantly convinced she was fat even though she was a size 10.

Oh come on you are a grown up woman and presumably a self proclaimed feminist. You can't make up your own mind in your own kitchen that it's fine if a teenager, of either sex, is hungry (and there are no obesity or health issues) they should be allowed to eat ?

IME there is plenty of social pressure on boys to eat healthily and look good. If you are male gym fanatic your diet won't look like a female yoga fanatic but it will be just as monitored and controlled.

Of course she can lass - but we're talking about why she feels these urges to control her daughter but not her son.

We can all make personal changes, but this is a discussion board so we come here and talk about them too.

My reply was to Bertrand not Bertie.

This is family dependent ime. We all ate plenty as teens with no difference in how the sexes were treated or discussed.

Some other families I have subsequently discovered have eating disordered ways of being. My own MiL once gave me a filthy look for deciding to indulge in another chocolate after I'd said I was done. The women in her line all monitor the quantity of what they eat. My niece went very thin last year. It is all very unlike my side of the family.

Yes, I'm certainly not going to comment on my DD's eating habits as

a. she has no weight issues whatsoever.
b. she is in rude health.
c. she has fabulous self esteem and I will do nothing that might harm that.
d. she is becoming a young woman and what she does with her body (in terms of health, food, sex etc) becomes less of my business.

Alass I have made up my mind. But I also have enough self awareness to realise that my subconscious attitudes were different.

I'm surprised that on a personal level a feminist can't simply think "stuff and nonsense " and ignore what society thinks.

I actually think Bertrand"s comment that she would have commented on her daughter very strange. If you are going to challenge society's attitudes to women's appearance it seems very odd not to start with yourself. I don't call myself a feminist and I can't imagine for one mon

Sorry- can't imagine for one minute I'd have thought that about a daughter.

Well alass you don't have one so you can't know .

Societal pressure upon women is very strong and insidious. It affects most of us and it must be a good thing to consider it and work out how we might try not to pass it along?

Even as a "self proclaimed feminist" I can be unconsciously influenced by societal pressures. As it happens, I don't actually know if I would have been in the case of my daughter, because she did not eat in the way my son does. Maybe she wasn't as hungry? Or maybe she had taken on board the societal norms herself? Maybe I sent her subliminal messGes?

In any case, a quick search of mumsnet, or a bit of eavesdropping on the conversations of the parents of teenage boys will reveal a raft of "what are they like!" comments and empty fridge anecdotes. And very few, if any, similar ones about teenage girls.

As a self proclaimed feminist I know I am affected by societal pressure . It's kinda the point...