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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ms, Mrs,Miss

520 replies

LookAtMeGo · 05/08/2015 22:05

Apologies in advance, as I'm sure it has been done to death. But today I realised the truth of why I refer to myself as Mrs even though I'm divorced. My mum is divorced and told me as a child in response to me asking why she is still Mrs that it is so nobody judges her and she looks respectable (not her actual words, but that's what I got from the convo at the age of about ten)

Even as a highly educated professional, I still wanted to hold on to the title post-divorce and I feel pretty... I don't know... angry? Upset? Ashamed? I really don't know. All I know is I don't feel good, and I shall be Ms from now on.

Any thoughts? Is there something else I should be doing?

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 22:29

achieve It's a lost cause Confused

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Iggi999 · 07/08/2015 22:32

I dont really mind people knowing that I'm married. I'm sure my dh doesn't mind it either, but it never happens to him

Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 22:38

Exactamundo.

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 22:39

That's all we're trying to say. Nobody minds if the world knows their marital status. Surely.

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achieve6 · 07/08/2015 22:59

Actually Mehitabel that comment was helpful. Because now I get that you're saying you personally mind anyone knowing your marital status.

But do you see that to be equal with men, women should also have titles that don't announce marital status? Or do you just not see that at all? Is there no equality issue at all for you?

achieve6 · 07/08/2015 23:00

Mehitabel, when you said you used Mrs all along I got confused about what you want for yourself.

Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 23:03

Mehitabel's comments are confusing because they make no sense. Anyway, she's left the thread now so we can have a sensible confession again.

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 23:06

She personally DOESNT mind anyone knowing her marital status. She couldn't care less. Which I'm sure the majority of the population do too Hmm in other words, irrelevant and adds nothing to the conversation. None of us has said we mind it.

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achieve6 · 07/08/2015 23:08

Lookatmego, sorry to disappoint but I have nothing to confess Grin

DadWasHere · 07/08/2015 23:08

Nobody minds if the world knows their marital status. Surely.

This thread would suggest otherwise.

weasle · 07/08/2015 23:17

I've been driven mad today at work with this issue.
I work in a hierarchical system and recently promoted and now referred to as Title Surname. Despite clearly stating (name badge, email sign off, in person) that I use Ms, as my marital status is irrelevant I've spent the day crossing out extra 'is' and 'r'. Some people who know my (different surname) husband still use Mrs for my name?!
Quite fairly neither of us changed name on marriage. But it's never an issue for DH!

Hockneypool · 07/08/2015 23:18

I've been a Ms since I was a teenager, when I realised my marital status was an equality issue that men don't face. I've been married for over 20 years still Ms my name. Occasionally get the raised eyebrow/ otherness of it. It does amaze me that so many people still don't see this as an equality issue.

Had never heard of the Ms for divorcees until MN but do enjoy living in a lovely bubble most of the time.

Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 23:28

Sorry achieve! I didn't understand what you meant there for a minute!Grin

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 23:31

dadwadhere, I just meant that that's not the main issue of this thread. I'm sure most people are y ashamed of the world knowing their marital status. If mens' titles displayed their marital status, nobody would give a shit about the choice of their marital status being displayed.

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 07/08/2015 23:32

not

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achieve6 · 07/08/2015 23:32

Dadwashere, no one does here mind people knowing their marital status. We're objecting to the fact that female titles are set up to announce it. You can know the fact if you know me but why is my title set up to show it?

EBearhug · 07/08/2015 23:51

If you're a man, then people only know if you're married if you announce it, either by wearing a ring (but not all married men do), or by telling someone. That's all most of the women on this thread are asking for - equal treatment. It does matter, because people will make assumptions about you, whether you use Miss, Mrs or Ms, and they may well ask if you have to check with your husband, even if it's totally irrelevant to whatever the situation may be.

Times when it may well be relevant to know if you're married is in next of kin situations (e.g. medical consent forms, emergency contacts at work,) childcare situations, joint bank accounts, mortgages, benefits and inheritance. But even in most of those situations - you don't have to have your spouse as next of kin, nor as your emergency contact.

LassUnparalleled · 08/08/2015 00:11

Dad so can we decide to

(a)resurrect "Master" out of the hinterland of Victorian children's literature and/ or sub/dom fiction , shorten it to Mst (prounounced "Mast") and apply it to all unmarried men;
(b) declare "Mr" means married men; and
(c) invent a third title of say "M" pronounced "m" for those of you who don't want your marital status known?

Bonkers, isn't it?

DadWasHere · 08/08/2015 00:21

We're objecting to the fact that female titles are set up to announce it. You can know the fact if you know me but why is my title set up to show it?

I think it was an equality issue, once, up until Ms became so common and generic that it no longer even revealed an individuals choice to not declare marital status but instead reflected only a social neutrality, much like Dr dissolves both marital status and gender identification (interestingly Dr is assumed almost universally as Doctor of Medicine, and many who are doctors in other fields do not use Dr as an honorific in day to day usage for that very reason)

Anyway, that’s where Ms is now in the US, its that common in liberal states. In that respect women are now more choice empowered than men although it would vary state by state. If in the UK Ms has adopted some kind of weird social sub-culture of 'divorced woman' then, the fates help you, its probably women policing women into that view as was suggested earlier in the thread.

SenecaFalls · 08/08/2015 00:43

its that common in liberal states

It's that common everywhere in the US, even in the Deep South.

Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 08/08/2015 00:45

As a black female I do not feel discriminated against on the basis of my race in every day life. As a woman, discrimination is all around me. But most women don't or won't realise it. I am lucky to be in a really good career and that the father of my children is a feminist without knowing it. He has the kids 50/50 since our split, and even when we were together did the majority of the housework and has always been as hands-on as me with the children. I think that is bc I expected it and so subconsciously he knew I expected equality all the way. From what I read on here, most women don't have this as their default, and will actually argue against it. I'm getting to the point where I think if you like it, just carry on! It doesn't affect my life and if I have daughters I will bring them up to expect equality too, so those women angry at me for wanting equality can just carry on as they are. It doesn't affect my life. I'm out.

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 08/08/2015 00:47

dadwashere so many words! But you're still missing the point!Confused

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 08/08/2015 00:49

I'm not going to keep on arguing for turkeys voting for Christmas!

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 08/08/2015 00:53

I'm sorry to say it on a feminist board but I find these women arguing against feminism so bonkers that my brain freezes and I don't even know how to respond. I am pretty sure that if this was the 1960s and this were a black rights group, there would be no such turkeys voting for Christmas. I find it completely insane and don't have the energy for it. I will focus on making sure I am treated equally in every day life, because I expect it and deserve it.

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Original poster
LookAtMeGo · 08/08/2015 00:57

And will await posts from people like Mehitabel on the Relationships board posting about their lazy/thoughtless/lap-dancing husbands. Glad it won't be my world!

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