Demanding job

[FayKorgasm]

Not a TAAT but inspired by years of threads. Frequently I read threads on here by women posters who have husbands or partners who do the very bare minimum of child rearing. One of the reasons given is the all inclusive Demanding Job. Extra points for Long Hours in aforementioned Demanding Job.
It really gives me the rage. Lots of women work in Demanding Jobs and yet come home and just bloody get on with it but men are excused the daily drudge because of it.

I think not caring if someone respects you because of your own shitty behaviour is a measure of how much respect you have for them

which would be...not very much at all

Good point

I've said before, this is the real glass ceiling. From the first moment (usually during maternity leave) that a partner decides that they are the important job person, then the decisions that should be discussed from a place of equality become distorted. Because if one person's choices include knowing that (at least) adequate care - giving and family management are going to be delivered if they remain in full time work , including possibly doing less than if that person were single, and the other partner knows that the opposite (and more) is likely to be true, then decisions about working patterns are skewed.

It's one of the brightest examples of male privilege: the ability to behave in a way that causes discomfort to those around you, but to live your life as if you were a paragon of virtue. Not having to suffer comebacks from your bad behaviour pretty much defines privilege for me.

Citrine because clearly you have an extra day off and during that time you can organise all the threads and summer holiday plans.

Same here except I'm the higher earner and have a demanding job. Dh is self employed so v demanding job as well - I get that. Plus if he doesn't work then he doesn't earn.

But... Why is it up to me to organise summer camps and pay for them? Why is it up to me to organise after school club payments and have meetings with them? why do I also then have to rock up to school with a home made cake because I had to take note of the bake sale?! This summer, I agonised over summer camp and eventually chose one (the one we used last year ceased to exist in it's previous form). I booked summer holiday. I've just organised a play date to coincide with a boring trip to Clark's to get shoes (20 miles away so best to get two things out of the way - and save petrol).

I don't bother telling him things anymore. Increasingly it's only on the day when I inform him. Because it doesn't matter - I still have to organise pick ups and everything.

Strongly agree with the point that most women can't fulfil their potential at work or their own business, creatively or whatever, if they are doing the lion's share at home.

Also relate to NK5BM3 and others about the exhausting nature of the"wife work". Especially the less obvious (but important and time consuming) stuff requiring attention and draining our brains!

The paying the cleaner example is classic: if I'm away and remind DH to pay our cleaner, even if I leave money for this, he forgets and expects me to sort it out when I get back. when challenged he says it doesn't matter, she was fine about it and I'm making a "big deal" (by mentioning it!) It makes me because it's disrespectful to me and her and reveals a bad attitude. Another example: on mornings when he takes the DDs to school he doesn't regard it as his job to do their hair. One has done her own since she was 2 (she's got some talent and a funky sense of style!) but the other wakes up as early as possible so that I can do it before I leave (early) for the commute, and gets anxious about it. He knows this and yet still won't learn.

Oh, and not only a glass ceiling within personal partnerships which impacts the wider experience of women. In addition, there are swathes of men who are able to focus on work in a way that even their single colleagues cannot, because they are doing next to no personal admin. Ffs, you only have to look at the buying clothes for men threads!

I reduce the wife work by never ever baking for school or worrying about school fairs, voluntary PTA stuff and the like; no present or card buying for DH's family or friends; and DH participates equally in all decisions about childcare, including ad hoc summer stuff etc.

There is a buying clothes for men thread!? I remember my aunt looking horrified that I don't know what DH's shirt size is. And then I compounded it by saying I don't iron his stuff either. It was all round. Happy memories.

OK OK I shall attempt to be more mature in my next post....

I should say that I'm not talking about glass ceiling in some kind of high powered city sense. I just mean in the sense of being able to take your job (or life as a whole) in a direction you would like, with the family and home stuff being at least on the table as a neutral compromise point, rather than being gender driven.

Reducing wife work for the wife is fabulous. That those things then might not get done can be a bit sad on a societal level. Not to mention that the wife then gets the backlash anyway if there is any criticism to be made on the lack.

Yes, there are a couple a year, I think! The partners are just not interested in clothes and would dress like tramps otherwise. Convenient.

DH does his own ironing and present buying, there just seems to be enough if everything else to be another proper part time job. Which appears to have become mine by default.

Actually, I know he's not good at being organised and makes up for it at work by being clever and bring there. It does irritate me that he doesn't try.

Reducing wife work for the wife is fabulous. That those things then might not get done can be a bit sad on a societal level.

I don't think so. I think Stepford style immaculate houses are a side effect of not giving women enough to occupy their talents and ambitions, not actually a necessity for society. The basics would still get done.

I also think that after a period of stand off per household the balance would reset in terms of who does what. Very few people want to live in a tip.

I've had a bit of a lightbulb moment ...

Our schools here are categorised into 'deciles', and it's a socio-economic calculation directly based on the families in the school community's incomes. It's adjusted regularly.

Decile 10 schools get the least government funding, and decile 1 schools get the most.

The upshot is that the higher decile schools have to fundraise like crazy to get resources for their school.

Guess who this load inevitably falls to... Yes, mothers.

There are constant (and I mean, constant) calls to join the school fundraising committee, to contribute to ad hoc tasks, to dedicate time (and money, of course), and yes, to flipping bake.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but this system impacts, and relies, far more on women than it does on men. Women feel far more guilted obligated to sign up for this sort of thing than men ever do. It's yet another way that leisure time is sucked away from women.

Our school decile system is actually not just a socio-economic issue (high decile schools out-perform low decile schools, at least taking the aggregated view), but it's also a feminist issue.

TheDowagerCuntess, why don't men step up, do you think?

Why would you, if you didn't have to, Soup? Most of that kind of thing is tiring, thankless and a bit mindless. No ego boost or other benefit involved. Unless you've been raised to believe that service is its own reward.

There's some merit in that, Sweet. However, in the broader picture of school engagement and interaction with family and the wider community, there is a loss. And I come back to the backlash on women who don't. I don't agree with it, but it is a factor.

So men don't get punished for not taking part but women do? All the more reason not to take part.

(Yes, I understand that not all women feel they can step outside the social strictures.)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Or not.

I think we're talking here about zero engagement if it's not done by women. Not tinkering at the edges of whether or not cakes for the pta fair keep society going. However, women not baking cakes for that will always come off worse and not because of anything internal to them.

I agree that there are some things that
are very much personal preference (cake bakes) but stuff like ensuring your kids are mixing out of school or going to the library or getting regular dental check ups are kinda mainstream. Taking the lead on those is not a gender thing, is it? And not confined to working hours in terms of thinking?

I don't think fundraising for schools has much to do with community, I bet almost all the money comes from families with children at each school that give money, time and stuff. Perhaps it's all done because people in general are more willing to do that than simply hand over cash for the school?

Think some schools now ask for "voluntary contributions" of specified amounts of money which seems easier to me, but is controversial.

The things you mention notjustapotforsoup are very often done by women, WOH or not.

I think that may be my point. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I've had a hard day at work, so wine has been taken.

It doesn't matter if the Important Job is done by a woman, only if by a man.

Women feel far more guilted obligated to sign up for this sort of thing than men ever do.

I was thinking about this at work the other day - was trying to get some people to give support to a STEM-related charity thing I was organising. Some of the men did give support, others just said, "no," or "no, no one ever helped me, why should I do anything, it's always for women or students these days." Women either offered to help where they could, or were really apologetic because they were going to be on leave, or really apologetic because they simply had too much work on.