Demanding job

[FayKorgasm]

Not a TAAT but inspired by years of threads. Frequently I read threads on here by women posters who have husbands or partners who do the very bare minimum of child rearing. One of the reasons given is the all inclusive Demanding Job. Extra points for Long Hours in aforementioned Demanding Job.
It really gives me the rage. Lots of women work in Demanding Jobs and yet come home and just bloody get on with it but men are excused the daily drudge because of it.

And good points about why do WOHP get to call the shots and partners generally coming in to the workplace to comment on acceptable standards from Buffy and cailin.

It's not entitlement - it's acknowledgment of the curtailment of my freedom -and you'd like to curtail that further by giving my partner the right to criticise my hoovering?

No-one's asking someone to be out of the house for 12 hours, and then set to scrubbing the kitchen floors - we're saying they need to do their stuff and not treat the SAHP as a skivvy. If that SAHP was up at 6:30 getting the kids ready for school, then gets back to the house at 9:30, then does it all again 2:30 - 7:30, then that's a full working day. - we'll we're already up to 7 hours, before we get onto any other responsibilities - and that's for a school aged child. No, it's not all full on, but it's also not something that can just be walked away from. By the time the kids are in bed, and the WOHP is home, everyone's knackered. Everyone should pitch in to washup, pickup whatever's been left lying around and put on a load of washing. Why does one person get to sit and do nothing and the other remain on duty?

Being on call doesn't mean that they can't push a hoover round, but having to be on call, and work around pick hours means that the out of home jobs they can take are very, very limited, and the exchange they're making for that limitation is that in that case, they get to occasionally go to the gym, or out for coffee, or sew scented pillow cases or whatever once the kids are at school (again, this is after 5 years of service - just like in many jobs when you start getting extra perks for long years served)

It's a bloody terrible deal for a SAHP if they get to erode their employability, act as family skivvy, and on-call labour 24 hours a day, and then, just when it looks like they might get a break, they're now told that they have all the time in the world and they should fill it with more housework (done to an acceptable standard). While the WOHP gets up, goes to work, comes home to dinner and a clean house and isn't expected to lift a finger? Really? It's entitled to suggest otherwise?

Sod that. The sooner women realise they're being taken for a ride the better.

But SAHP don't sit around drinking coffee between 9:00 and 15:00 when kids are at do they? What about shopping, clearing away the breakfast stuff, more fucking washing/washing up/putting away clothes. And that's before we get on to the jobs like hovering, cleaning the bathroom/kitchen/bedrooms, changing the bedding, organising bills/paperwork/dentists/party presents/after school activities, DIY, gardening, car-related stuff, bins, relative/friends related stuff etc. I know I could easily fill those six hours during the day with only part of that.

I am now depressed. It is a never ending cycle of jobs that never really get finished. And when they do they just start up again. I am grateful for my partner doing a lot of this while I am out of the house. He is currently juggling a 3 yr old and 5 yr old to swimming lessons, a party, doing all the washing from our holiday and unpacking the bags. Whilst I am doing a Very Demanding and Important job .

On which note I'd better get back to it!

Well exactly Scallops (it's putting away the washing that has always got me down... somehow I can cope with weeds re-growing, but the endless cycle of washing is just awful. Roll on clothes replicators)

Disposable clothes....

Environmentally friendly, compostible clothes...

Surely there's a SAHM out there with too much time on her hands who could engineer a product to fill that gap in the market before the school run?

And good points about why do WOHP get to call the shots

Aren't they the ones paying, making them the employer?

There's many studies showing that the SAHP puts in more work hours than the WOHP in a two parent household. And the majority are women. Ever been home with a toddler and a baby larry ? It is non stop. Think of the school age freedom you resent as being saved up holidays eh.

Unless there are any men here who have actually been at the coal face, at home with young children and a house to maintain, their opinion is fairly irrelevant.

I had a relatively short stint as a SAHM, and it was, to put it succinctly, an unhappy time for me.

As the saying goes, 'a woman's work is never done'.

The minute any task is done (and there are a lot of them), it's virtually time to start doing that exact task all over again.

Throw in children and husbands who expect the SAHP to relentless do these deeply unfulfilling tasks (wiping down benches, loading dishwashers, pegging out laundry, bring it in, folding it up, dusting, hoovering, washing, cleaning, maintaining, picking up after people, keeping on top of paperwork, etc, etc, ad nauseum...), and while it might be a short-term recipe for a clean house, it's not a recipe for a long-term happy marriage.

Most SAHP are doing their best to keep on top of things. They won't always be able to, and they most likely will log equal, if not more hours doing far less fulfilling and remotely enjoyable tasks day in, day out.

A little bit of shared responsibility for the joint living space, and a little kindness (and less 'exacting standards') goes a long way.

The minuteanytask is done (and there are a lot of them), it's virtually time to start doing that exact task all over again

Assuming you manage to actually finish anything. I'm on maternity leave and the little angel prefers I complete no task, let alone to any standard of domestic excellence. She likes eating and company and doesn't care what the boss thinks.

You're a stalwart of this board, Larry. frequently in here, mansplaining why we're doing it all wrong, even though you have no direct experience yourself.

I'd say most of us on this thread alone, have been both a SAHP at one point, as well as a WOHP. And this being the feminist board, a fair few of us with professional, senior management experience in 'demanding' jobs.

Forgive us, then, if we continue to take your rather narrow viewpoint with a grain of salt.

The litmus test for this is to look at the amount of housework unemployed men do when their DP is at work.

I think you'll find the answer is: very little.

What I find odd is the fact that when a woman does childcare a housework it's easy and nothing but when a man does it it's time consuming and noteworthy. It's interesting how few men line up to do the lovely relaxing job of a SAHP on days off or at weekends because in actual fact they know how hard it I and they know looking after children while running a house isn't such a cakewalk.

One of the things I really wonder is what these people would do if they were a two parent/people working household? It doesn't seem to cross their minds that if both people worked then no-one would be able to claim a 'demanding job' and not just get on with it.

I do wonder whether some women almost encourage this tbh. FIL was a bit useless when the kids were growing up apparently (fine now though it has to be said re housework) and MIL moans but is quite surprised that anyone could have expected it to be any different as he 'had a demanding job'.

He did, but plenty of people have demanding jobs, and so does their spouse, and they do function. How do these single working households imagine other families live I wonder?

You also get a lot of criticism on here about people with nannies/childcare and cleaners, as though there isn't anything left to do after they have been and gone in a normal family with children. Of course there is, but some people, largely women, froth on here at the very suggestion that paying for help is anything other than the height of laziness. They are piling it onto women too.

There are also a lot of complaints about husbands (generally) demanding certain standards of tidiness. I am not sure what is wrong with that as the working parent has to meet certain standards every day too and the SAHp gets to share the fruits of him meeting these standards.

Gobsmacked at this particular nugget. The working parent is reporting to a boss . The SAHP is NOT the junior employee of the Working parent.

I was a SAHP for 10 years, and had my husband demanded "certain standards" he would have been singing descant within minutes. Of course, my standards were so wonderful he would never have had room for complaint anyway. :)

I am sure larry gets a lot of satisfaction from being in charge of his own little world

It's very, very telling that Larry equates the WOHP as being the line manager, the one to whom the SAHP is accountable for meeting the standards.

#WomenCanSee

Unless there are any men here who have actually been at the coal face, at home with young children and a house to maintain, their opinion is fairly irrelevant.

I am a SAHD to two preschool DCs, one with SN, who has a DW with a genuinely demanding job. I am only saying this because my opinion is still irrelevant, because this is a structural problem, not an individual one (in my admittedly irrelevant opinion)

'I am sure larry gets a lot of satisfaction from being in charge of his own little world'

Yup, at least it is a real world and not a virtual one.

I am being attacked with a lot of 'straw man' arguments. I have never said the WOHP is in charge, merely that he/she should have input. I have also said that there are two jobs to be done by a couple, the home and bringing in income. As a partnership, there should be equal input into both jobs. Clearly, the SAHP cannot go into the WOHP's work, but they can have input into hours worked vs income, location of job, whether to go for promotions etc. Equally, the SAHP does not get complete autonomy. I am arguing for genuine equality on all fronts.

You're not arguing for equality, you're suggesting that the person who has no division between their work and home life should have 24 hour monitoring by someone whose work ends at a specific time each day and can come home to relax and issue orders.

Larry, your comments are right there on the thread, in black and white, for us to refer back to. You said:

There are also a lot of complaints about husbands (generally) demanding certain standards of tidiness. I am not sure what is wrong with that....

What is 'husbands demanding certain standard of tidiness', if not the WOHP being in charge...?

Do you run your own marriage like this?

Larry, I don't know anyone who has a say over their partner's work life. DH might tell me if he was up for promotion, but I wouldn't get to dictate whether he went for it or not, that would be up to him. Equally, he doesn't dictate to me what I do in my work. Does your wife demand certain standards of your paid work?

OP I totally agree.

Dp earns less than me, works fewer hours yet the stuff he "doesn't see" is ridiculous. I think it does come down to upbringing. My mum taught me how to run a house, bills, cleaning, ironing etc. DPs mum taught him to use a washing machine and thought this was progressive.

A conversation at the weekend:

DP 'we need an extra chair for lunch'
Me 'yes I know'
DP 'I think there's one in the garage'
Me 'yes'
DP 'well is there one in the garage?'
Me 'you are just as capable of me of looking in the garage, how about you look yourself?'
DP goes off in a huff to look for the chair.

I think it's partly learned helplessness and tbh I'm not always great at saying, no you do it.

Buffy,

I am arguing for treating the stay at home role equivalently to any other job. This entails embracing the role professionally in return for 50% of the household income.

You may not be arguing for full relaxation while school age children are at school but several posters have (as a quid pro quo of the hard work pre school). I also know many parents who do have an awful lot of spare (as in completely free) time as they have plenty of home help.