Is my understanding of feminism wrong??

[SilverHoney]

I find the statement "I'm not a feminist" very confusing...

My understanding of feminism is social equality for men and women (wages, laws, education, opportunities). So for someone to say they are not a feminist would mean they DON'T think men and women should be equal?

Am I confused? To me, openly admitting you're not a feminist is like admitting you're homophobic or racist. Would be interesting to hear from people with differing points of view!

It's the difference between words and deeds isn't it. I'd like to think that everyone who acted in a feminist manner was ok about being called a feminist, but for many reasons, people aren't. That being the case, at least they can act (and think) like feminists but avoid the label.

Puffins - you raise your girls as I do my boys I think - ds1 and tbh dp are probably more feminine than me in character, and it doesn't matter a hot. We already tailor lives to interests, why make like difficult by trying to hem them in further than they have to.

Are you on that thread right now, calling out JAPAB, who sees nothing sexist in the words slut, whore, gash etc? No, you aren't. From that, do I conclude you agree with his position and condone it?

I had participated in that thread. Your comment above is vile. I don't subscribe to the women as eternal victim theory but given I have consistently stated my oppposition to porn and the sex industry it is pretty unlikely I would agree with what he (I'm assuming it is a he ) said.

And once again with the selective quoting, lass. Here's what I actually wrote:

"From that, do I conclude you agree with his position and condone it? Of course I don't, I assume you're busy doing something else."

Key phrase in bold.

Oh, and you had not commented on that thread at the time I posted, as well you know.

I really don't know what you are getting out of this.

Screwing over feminists. Attempting to belittle and antagonize. That seems to be about it, I think. I could ask 'sisterly?' But that would be the height of irony.

Oh, and you had not commented on that thread at the time I posted, as well you know

Wrong. I had posted on that thread before you posted that. I haven't checked the exact time of my second post which was in reply to JAPAB (although presumably you did) but I posted before I saw your comment.

So you had, Lass, on 2nd July. I apologise for that error.

Would you now like to apologise for misrepresenting me by quoting selectively?

I also note that your 2nd July post on that thread was after the post you have mentioned, but you didn't say anything about it then.

And yet you assume that other posters who didn't explicitly respond to it were condoning the phrase? Yet that presumably doesn't apply to yourself and your own lack of comment?

Why is it one rule for you and another for everybody else?

Getting back to the OP, I think that a lot of people don't identify as feminists because it has negative connotations for them.

I know adult women who see feminism as foolish, because they think it is about man-hating or because they think it focuses on what they see as unimportant details, like titles.

Or people simply haven't thought about it at all, of course.

Sorry to return to Lass's ridiculous derail, however, she has, once again, deliberately misrepresented me. My post on the other thread, as anyone with a modicum of intelligence noticed, was in response to a pp's assertion that talking about this using a specific post from relationships was wrong, it successfully conveyed that the language used about theOW in that thread wasn't confined to that particular relationship at all, had been used about the OW in my friends relationship, and that if people felt more comfortable, my friend was happy for posters to use her as an example instead. Thus removing the lack of sisterhood difficulty.

I am obviously at fault there for expecting Lass, who rarely posts in good faith, to be able to discern that most people DO post in good faith, and shall henceforth explicitly state in all posts what my motivation was to post, just so she doesn't need to waste her time calling me out for imagined slights that only someone who generally posts in bad faith would see.

Lass, you now have several options.

You could: do your usual thing of leaving the thread your true motivation has been demonstrated on, while happily posting equally disingenuously on other threads,

Or, you could continue to post on this thread, misquoting and ascribing false motivations to people until you do the above, as you sometimes choose to do,

Or, you could, as you sometimes do, name change and slag FWR off on AIBU or chat, by saying that we're all mean to you randomly and for no reason.

Or, you could admit your mistake, apologise for it, and we can all move on, which would be a first.

If we're calling out other people behaviour, then I have to say that your posts are increasingly indistinguishable from the ranting of some of the trolls who come to MN purely to upset and antagonise, is that what you're going for, Lass?

Further apologies to everyone else for this long post, it's not meant as a PA on Lass (although, I suspect she will see it as such) but, as she has decided to target my posts, I felt I had right to reply.

Going back a bit to Abbey, if you're still around, I'm really curious about this. You don't feel that you're discriminated against. How do you square that with male violence against women and the fact that men commit most violence? How about with most people staying at home with kids being women?

NoTech Male violence is something I'm familiar with - my biological father was violent to my mother (witnessed by me) many times when I was very small. She left him when I was 4 (not that common a thing to do back then). Being brought up by her and my adopted Dad was positive because she is an extremely strong person whom I admire greatly. She also doesn't identify as a feminist but their relationship is about as equal as I can imagine.

I was raped as a 15 yo virgin. Yes, it has affected my life but it was one man. He committed the crime against me, not against all of womanhood.

Everyone, whatever their sex, has a certain amount of freedom of choice. If people choose to have children, then they need to accept that employers may not be delighted by losing a valuable employee for a year at a time. That in turn may affect their chances of promotion etc.

If men were able to take a year off for whatever reason then I'm sure they would be affected in the same way.

I have never been discriminated against for being female and I know a lot of people who would say the same. If something bothers you, then fight it or walk away, but I don't feel that I am responsible for fighting something I don't agree with simply because I am the same sex.

This is a bit garbled, but hopefully it makes sense

Or, you could, as you sometimes do, name change and slag FWR off on AIBU or chat, by saying that we're all mean to you randomly and for no reason.

I haven't done that. I have when there are parallel threads running posted on both. As for apologising I apologise to Yonic. I misinterpreted her "off doing other things" as meaning I couldn't be bothered or didnt care about challenging JAPAB's nonsense.

As to why I posted on this thread I have explained at length why whilst agreeing with the basic fundamentals of equality, having fairly mainstream views on porn, abortion etc I do not call myself a "feminist" nor do I want that label put on me. Which is what the OP was asking about.

You absolutely have done every single thing I said you have done. You've even caught yourself out a few times by forgetting to name change back! The only thing you've never done is put your hands up and apologise for deliberately lying, misrepresenting others and misquoting. Please stop lying, it makes you look desperate and unintelligent.

You also have no worries that anyone would ever mistake you for a feminist, Lass. That wasn't a compliment, btw.

I think that's fair enough Abbey. I mean not that you're here looking for validation or anything but yeah. I have stuff I feel that way about too that others feel is very important.

It's interesting isn't it. I since a young teen just noticed that I was treated differently, didn't like it, got really upset and angry and embarrassed and so on when builders whisteled (sp?) and when people raised eyebrows about my interests, it pissed me off, I always noticed all that sort of stuff and I did not like, not one little bit.

I wonder why some people react in one way and some in another to the same situation. Well that's the breadth of human nature I guess but I still find it interesting!

I have never hidden when I have name changed.

I am not apologising to Bacon. despite your own opinion of the merits of dead naming (drama queens, an opinion I don't share) you couldn't resist giving me a ticking off for mentioning the former name. I wonder did you report me?

You are still not explaining why when in theory if feminist just means being in favour of equality the word is disliked by me and as we know from similar threads , many other women.

Pathetic.

Yes, I did report, and was told that they wouldn't delete because I had already challenged you successfully. Poor form to ask, but not unexpected from you.

You continue to derail if it makes you happy, and it obviously does, however, do it in the sure knowledge that everyone sees you for what you are.

You have had feminism defined for you by people far more erudite than I, and yet you still pretend ignorance, I'm done. And just for info, it's Baking, you utter juvenile.

OP, sorry to have continued to derail. Unless the thread changes tack, I'll keep out. Lass does so enjoy having the last word.

Just to say, I'm attempting to think about your reply Abbey & ta v much for it. I may have been celebrating a very good day so it's amazing I can type let alone think. It is good to hear other people's opinions.

I'm glad you had a good day NoTech! And thanks for not flaming me!