You were right

[DoughDoe]

So I was a bit confused about all the anti-trans posts in here. I didn't get it really. Transsexuals are victims, minorities, etc., why are you lot against them?

Now I have seen the story of Rachel Dolezal:

cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Rachel-Dolezal-10.png

who decided she was black and became a local NAACP president. When it was discovered that she wasn't, basically everyone has said she has no right to do this.

And suddenly it all makes sense to me. If we do not accept that people can make a relatively minor change from one skin pigmentation to another, and that a white person cannot become black, then we sure as hell shouldn't accept that a man with different bone, muscle, sexual organs, brain, chromosomes, and god knows what else, can POSSIBLY be a woman. And he CERTAINLY should not be participating in women's sports and other female spaces.

It's absurd, and it just makes you wonder why it is that if transracialism is so roundly rejected (no, you are not a black person, you are a white person with a bit of bronzer and an Afro), why we don't say that a transsexual is not in fact a woman, but simply a man in a dress.

Kickass- I'm probably missing the point here but a lot of sport isn't separated by sex IMO. Maybe I should say only top level sport is separated by sex, which is where the differences in things like body composition will become more clear.

Taking marathon running as an example, yes the world class athletes are separated but that's prob 1% of the total field in say the London marathon. Everyone else runs together although I don't know if when you finish you get ranked by sex.

The difference in body composition from a man to a woman at say 200Ibs could be very noticeable. A man at 200Ibs and at 10% body fat is going to be a lot stronger and faster than a woman at 200Ibs and 20% body fat.

Didn't you start a thread just the other day saying that you weren't going to be posting on trans threads anymore Ego?

Mide - as I said, I haven't looked into that much, so my ideas are rambling and unscientific. but it just seems to me that many things in life are separated by gender (and I have taught in 7 schools in 2 countries, and only come across sports that are split into male or female, often with them being labelled 'basketball' and 'girls' basketball', as if women are somehow the other kind of sport, not the real one), and there are other ways of deciding how to categorize.

e.g. about a baby, we ask if they are m/f as pretty much the FIRST most important thing. Most parents to newborns probably focus more on how much sleep they get each night as the most important aspect of parenting.

It is a slightly tangential to the main point of this thread, but as a theory, it is interesting to think how the whole transgender issues would be affected if we had a society that focussed less (or even not at all) on the male/female divide. Would it perhaps leave many people feeling less conflicted about their identity if being 'not really one particular sex, I just feel like me'?

kiss not much at all in life is separated by gender, many things are divided by sex; because there are biological facts and practicalities which make that sensible and useful

Trans activists and changes in LAW are having things seperated according to gender. And there is no useful basis for that at all. No practicalities are facts that make that logical in any way

sorry kick not kiss

Harvey - your peak trans moment post for me exactly sums up why I also feel that the whole situation has become completely mad. I regard myself as a pretty liberal person and have no issue with men wanting to wear frocks and do their nails but object strongly to this overiding way more important issues relevant to millions of women. I'm also not a cis woman, I'm a woman. Having read the thread about 'what does it feel like to be a woman' it seems obvious that the vast majority of women who responded didn't have a feeling of gender but of biological fact whereas the trans women were very keen to claim that they knew what being a woman felt like. Maybe society needs categories of woman, man, transwoman and transman? And whilst I sympathise with transgender people we need to sort these issues out as I don't want to be forced to share changing rooms etc. with any man who decides to self identify as a woman.

Queen - if someone's had a namechange, is it good form to "out them" on a thread? I didn't know it was the same poster (indeed don't know if it's the same poster, you could be mis-remembering the name for all I know).

Oh and I also don't like idea of gender and reject the concept of having a 'female' brain - doesn't seem much of a step if that idea takes hold that there will be lots of things I shouldn't bother my pretty little brain with and oh look! we're suddenly back decades....

If I hadn't had my 'peak trans moment' before I'd be having it now.

It's Daily Mail so I screen-shotted the headlines.

Man dresses as a woman - Heart-warming responses from children.
Woman dresses in the style of 'younger women' - She's gone too far.

bair WHAT group of 9-11 year olds have been used to validate Bruce Jenners female identity by showing them pictures of him posing I underwear with his balls and penis tucked between his legs??

harvey

Where does it say that? I thought bair meant Jenners children

In ladies underwear. Posing I ladies underwear, with his balls and penis tucked between his legs

The man killed a woman FFS

When I open that second screen shot, it reads;

'she looks really confident'...this group of 9-11 year old were shocked, their mouths dropped open, when they were read tweets that criticized Jenner...

I didn't click the link. Search Jenner and most recent and it's there.

I went to the mail for examples as they love the Kardashians and I wanted an example of the media's take on both Caitlynn and Kris from the same source.

Sorry harvey

I couldn't open it in my machine...I got all confused

link to DM where children have been used to validate Caitlyn zJenner

Thank harvey

DM are being a bit naughty there I think, the article said that they were shown the picture of Jenner in a car...and then the DM show the vanity picture

Naughty, naughty, naughty

"if you expand the meaning of the word woman to include those that feel like women, can you not see it renders the word meaningless. You can't be something, when its definition is to feel like that something"

There it is, the crux of the matter.

I feel extraordinarily fucking livid about those kids being used in that way. I cant imagine what forum that is, I presume they have parents consent

How very dare they. Bruce Jenner is a pervert and he has killed a women. Vanity Fair is vapid trash and that picture objectified 'women'

I do think it's interesting that ego never came back to answer any of lurcio questions

Lurcio, thanks for your 1157 post yesterday.

Ego never answers any questions, just asks them.

I'm genuinely interested in the answers to those questions; from a non-extremist trans POV