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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

DP wants to go on new DC's BC

525 replies

Jackieharris · 18/05/2015 14:03

He has just raised this out of the blue.

He isn't on our eldest DC's bc. That's never caused a problem. Now he's saying he wants that changed too.

I know this is 'normal practice' (hence posting on fwr not aibu/chat/parenting/relationships) but it's made me really anxious.

It came so out of the blue, I didn't have much of a response prepared. I said it hadn't caused any problems so why change. I said I didn't want to give up my exclusive rights. He said why and I gave the hypothetical scenario of him running off with a younger woman then being able to restrict where I live etc after a split.

He knew about my stance on this before we had dc1. He knows I had a very bad relationship experience before him (life threatening violence, stalking and breaking into new house after break up type stuff) so I just won't ever feel 100% safe with any man ever and need to have the security that I could escape if that happened again. From my PoV if he was on bc he could potentially use this power to continue to abuse me even if I left. (So many threads like that on relationships board and I know some irl examples too)

As long as he was never violent I'd always let him have fair access to dcs so I said to him why does he want it unless he doesn't trust me?

I'm now going to be constantly worried he'll bring it up again. Maybe he won't. I'll not mention it if he doesn't.

OP posts:
Blistory · 19/05/2015 14:34

Women are frequently required to put unknown when they know exactly who the father is, if the father decides he wants nothing to do with the child.

It would be a bit unfair to then penalise women for that, would it not ?

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 19/05/2015 14:34

Sorry yes almond. Missed off court order etc.Smile

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 19/05/2015 14:35

Oops. double cross post.Blush

BluebeardsSidekick · 19/05/2015 14:40

"The mother can choose to register the birth on her own if she isn’t married to the child’s father. The father’s details won’t be included on the birth certificate."

That's how the law stands. It's not about the mother refusing to give the name or lying about knowing it, it's a matter of the mother needing either to have the father with her at the point of registration or to have a statutory declaration in her hand. Without one or the other she cannot have the father's name documented, whether she knows and is willing to give it or not.

MrBloomFantasies · 19/05/2015 14:46

yes i know, and i agree that's right and how it should be. But the children are the most important.

MrBloomFantasies · 19/05/2015 14:48

blue beard i meant in this particular case there is a father who is present and involved in his children's lives and he wants to be named.

ItsRainingInBaltimore · 19/05/2015 14:52

I stand up and applaud loudly at MrsDeVere's post at 13.17

PrettyInPinkPan · 19/05/2015 14:56

No-one is calling the OP "a man-hater", despite the suggestion this was so, to lower the quality of what was being said in questioning the motives of the OP.

Having read that the OP doesn't wish 'discussion' just 'tell me I am right?' that makes this individual case a bit moot.

Dervel · 19/05/2015 15:11

As has been itimated at points on this thread, the salient point is why the change now?

It could be perfectly comprehensible, perhaps the op's other half has a colleague at work who is embroiled in a bitter custody/access dispute. Maybe he has his next squeeze lined up and wishes to keep his options open.

It's the motivation behind the change that is the important thing here. In addition it's not unreasonable for him to seek a change, nor is her reaction to him wishing to change it. What happens is really a case of negotiation between the two of them.

As has been pointed out already wether his name is on it or not is neither here nor there, he can put it on via court orders at a later date. Yet that works both ways, if he's worried about what happens in the event of a relationship breakdown he needn't be.

It's next to impossible to know anything concrete about this from what little information has been given, but this being an issue that is obviously close to the nose for the OP, and hoping by ignoring it it will go away seems demonstrative that communication in this relationship is in trouble.

I would echo advice to perhaps seek counseling both individually and as a couple. Hope it all works out op!

LassUnparalleled · 19/05/2015 16:41

Dervel your post is good. This thread in my view got derailed by posters making it a general issue of male oppression to justify the OP's stance.

LassUnparalleled · 19/05/2015 16:45

Women are frequently required to put unknown when they know exactly who the father is,

Can we please squash this myth , at least as far as the UK? Birth certificates do not say "unknown "

DuncanQuagmire · 19/05/2015 16:46

no they do not.
They just have a line through 'fathers name'.
thank you Lass.

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 17:16

I wasn't 'justifying her stance' at all Lass. Please don't misrepresent what I was saying. And I haven't derailed anything. I was answering the OPs request for support. Male oppression has a bearing on this whether you like it or not.

I just wanted to return to MrsDeVere's point way back about black people having to live in close proximity to their white oppressors, as I missed it. I absolutely understand what you mean. Apologies for not recognising that. OutsSelf kind of nailed it with regards I was looking at personal relationships. Women are expected to willingly enter sexual relationships with and love their oppressors and in fact society is set up round that e.g. marriage.

MrBloomFantasies · 19/05/2015 17:21

Women are expected to willingly enter sexual relationships with and love their oppressors and in fact society is set up round that e.g. marriage.

when does this happen? genuinely curious as as far as i'm aware the vast majority of heterosexual women are perfectly willing and keen to engage in relationships with men sexually and otherwise and expectation doesn't come into it.

Momagain1 · 19/05/2015 17:26

" OP I honestly believe it is a child's right to know who their parents are, both mother and father..." But the children do know that. That isn't going to change by putting someone on a birth certificate. She isn't violating the children's rights.

The children may know, but in the long run, she is obscuring her children's history. it is surprising how quickly oral history gets mangled or even disappears. Her own grandchildren may end up thinking their parent was raised in a fatherless home, because that is what the birth record indicates. She has, in the long run, erased him from their family record, as a symbolic but pointless defensive reaction against a previous partner's abuse.

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 17:27

You don't think heteronormativity is a thing MrBloom? Or why the institute of marriage was set up?

scallopsrgreat · 19/05/2015 17:27

Or why homophobia exists?

MrBloomFantasies · 19/05/2015 17:33

huh? sorry you've lost me are you saying that... women are living to societys expectations and not their own will by engaging in heterosexual relationships.. that heterosexuality is being normalised and this in turn has created homophobia?

OutsSelf · 19/05/2015 17:42

Societies expectations inform women's wills, and everyone else's Mr Bloom. It's not that women are denying their will but that their desires are shaped by the society they live in. So no one would be saying that 'women are living to society's expectations and not their own will' when they are saying things like, women are expected to be romantically involved with their oppressors.

Reginafalangie · 19/05/2015 17:47

So does that mean all true feminists remain single/with the same sex/childless or use ivf?

Seriously have you just found the worlds worst book on feminism and are copying extracts out of it Hmm

MrBloomFantasies · 19/05/2015 17:51

but surely our sexuality is not informed by society.. i think it's the other way round as in if we had no or minimal societal influence we would still desire relationships. i don't see all men as oppressors so that just reads really strange to me personally, it's an uncomfortable statement.. i mean if you guys have male partners do you really think that society has shaped you to love your oppressor? i really do think it's the other way round, heterosexuality is more featured because it's more common, and society is obssessed and dominated with sex and sexuality because it is a large part of our lives.. no i don't agree with the sexualisation of children or the importance that marketing campaigns put on image etc but i don't think it's influencing the female population so much that we're being misled with regards to our own will.

Blistory · 19/05/2015 17:52

Step outside society's norm and you'll see the expectation.

Even with the risk of DV, rape and murder, women are still expected to want to willingly enter into relationships with men. On a lesser level, women tend to find that relationships with men increase the inequality that they experience particularly in regard to child rearing and household matters.

If you were setting up society from scratch, would it be realistic to expect women to freely enter into relationships if they were aware of these risks ?

Obviously individuals make their own choices and have their own experiences but from a class analysis, there is merit in questioning why women are expected to go along with the social norm when there is evidence that it may harm them. On the other hand, it's entirely logical for men to enter relationships with women as they retain their existing benefits and often gain more.

But to avoid the usual uproar I'll add the following:-

Not all men are like that
Not all women are like that
Wonderful relationships exist
Humans benefit generally from companionship
No, I don't think women should isolate themselves from men and live in female only communes
Yes, men are worth more than simply being sperm donors.
No, I don't worry about the effects of my post on young boys and men
No, I don't hate men
Yes, women can act like dicks too.

Floggingmolly · 19/05/2015 18:05

For the vast, vast majority of women "going along with this social norm", it does not harm them. Not even remotely. Despite the supposed evidence to the contrary.

Blistory · 19/05/2015 18:12

Really ?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by harm. My definition includes inequality and I'd struggle to see that the vast, vast majority of women don't experience this upon entering into a male/female relationship.

An individual woman may weight up the harm and decide that the benefits outweigh it or it may be something that is simply never considered.

Floggingmolly · 19/05/2015 18:14

15 years in and I remain an equal partner and completely unoppressed. Really.

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