NUS and prostitution - confused...

[Ubik1]

They seem to haves passed a motion which holds anyone who thinks the Nordic model of managing prostitution is the preserve of right wing radical feminists.

I'm confused. I don't know much about sex work but I do know it is linked to trafficking of women and children and organised crime. I would be delighted if men were criminalised - but maybe I'm wrong?

Here's the motion but you might not be able to view it...

lazocutor wrote - " if I say sexworker I'm referring to a prostitute."

How very sex worker-exclusionary of you.

Sex workers never tire of telling feminists that sex workers also include pimps, madams, phone sex sellers, and chauffeurs who drive prostitutes to clients.

Are you in favour of sex workers who aren't prostitutes dictating what prostitutes can and can't do? If not, what steps would you take to ensure the voices of prostitutes were not marginalised by these other sex workers? To allow only the voices of prostitutes to be heard on the subject of prostitution, should all non-prostitutes be expelled and excluded from sex worker organisations, including all the sex worker organisations that oppose the Nordic Model?

The consultation responses are still on the internet. I was looking at them about an hour ago. I didn't read all but the ones I saw were largely from women's organisations which supported her.

I wonder if there has been any debate at this NUS conference. Does anyone know if anyone spoke against any motion?

the responses for the RG public consultation have now been taken down but I can assure you most were along the lines of "prostitution is against god's law" and "I agree with the proposal and sex should only be between a married man and woman".

Wrong

Rhoda Grant got most of her support for her nordic model proposal from Christians. That's obvious.

Wrong

I agree with the NUS- it is like any other job- labour for money-

Wrong

I bet you would advocate the public shaming of prostitutes who are consenting and who don't support the "nordic model"?

Given your track record, Ladzocutor, how much do you want to bet? A month's wages?

Flora... I doubt it, the whole point of the motion was to silence dissent. Men have needs, women have to make sure they have access to women's bodies.

I wonder if there has been any debate at this NUS conference. Does anyone know if anyone spoke against any motion?

Can you imagine how any woman dissenting this would have been treated? So I'd say, no. (But if anyone did, I'd love to meet her and buy her a cup of coffee and a medal for bravery.)

It's the same with their other motions as well, they're so dogmatic it's hard to imagine anyone opposing. It's all very Orwellian.

www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_MembersBills/FINAL_consultation_summary.pdf

Link to the summary of the consultation and list of respondents. There are responses from religious organisations which is hardly unexpected -religious organisations usually respond to social policy consultations and there are responses from secular organisations.

Of the religious organisations one I recognise is The Cyrenians. They work with some of the most disadvantaged in society. Their work is inspired by their active Christian belief it is their duty to help. They do not judge or seek to impose their own moral beliefs.

I still haven't got over the assertion that if you've never been a prostitute, you aren't allowed to have a view on the matter.

By that logic:
I have never been physically disabled so I can't have a view on disabled access
I am not gay so I can't have a view on gay marriage
I've not a member of ISIS so I can't have a view on the way they insist women dress.... except... oh, I am a woman, so perhaps I can a view on that...

No MehsMum, you have a valid point.

Plus, I know of several exited women who are all for the Nordic Model as it is the safest for the most vulnerable women involved in prostitution.

I'm in recovery so I meet a lot of female addicts who at some stage have been street prostitutes to support their drug habit(or quite often their drug habit and their male partners drug habit). People in active addiction like that don't have the time, motivation or resources to 'consult' on their experiences of prostitution - they have more pressing concerns. None of the women I have met who have had that experience are reminiscing fondly or describing it as 'just a job like any other' there is no way they would have chosen it if they hadn't been struggling with addiction.

I've not met anyone who has continued once they got clean either.

I realise this is all anecdotal but it still feels relevant as its what informs the opinion I have on this issue.

Indeed.

A 'job like any other' I don't think so. It's such high risk occupation on every level.

People in active addiction like that don't have the time, motivation or resources to 'consult' on their experiences of prostitution - they have more pressing concerns.

Yes, this, exactly Sandor, they aren't likely to write empowering blogs or appear on panels. The ones I have known would not have wanted anything to do with it once they got out, and whilst they were in were in no kind of position to be "activists" of any sort.

"StillLostAtTheStation Sat 28-Mar-15 17:45:35
The consultation responses are still on the internet. "

Where?

"It's such high risk occupation on every level."

Yet one is more likely to be murdered or assaulted or robbed if they work in a pub or corner shop.

Don't female estate agents have to work in pairs now because one was murdered? Yet prostitutes in the UK (and also Sweden) are forced to work alone if they don't want to break the law.

"Yes, this, exactly Sandor, they aren't likely to write empowering blogs or appear on panels."

So how come Rachel Moran writes all those "empowering" blogs etc?

"StillLostAtTheStation Sat 28-Mar-15 17:45:35
The consultation responses are still on the internet. "

Where?

RTFT

Yet one is more likely to be murdered or assaulted or robbed if they work in a pub or corner shop.

Source?

Don't female estate agents have to work in pairs now because one was murdered?

Nope, wow, you're just wrong about everything!

More than half of women in prostitution have been raped and or seriously assaulted and at least 75% have been physically assaulted at the hands of the pimps and punters. 74% of women in prostitution identify poverty, the need to pay household expenses and support their children, as primary motivators for being drawn into prostitution. [Home office (2004). Solutions and Strategies: Drug Problems and Street Sex Markets. London: UK Government]

Women in street prostitution are 12 times more likely to be murdered than the rate for all women in same age group in the UK [Salfati, C. G. (2009). Prostitute Homicide: An Overview of the Literature and Comparison to Sexual and Non-Sexual Female Victim Homicide, pp. 51-68. In D. Canter, M. Ioannou, & D. Youngs (Eds.) Safer Sex in the City: The Experience and Management of Street Prostitution. The Psychology, Crime and Law Series. Aldershot: Ashgate.]

Don't female estate agents have to work in pairs now because one was murdered?

No. Practices were changed after Suzie Lamplugh that accompanied viewings are no longer done unless the identity and telephone number of the person being shown the property is verified and all viewings are logged.

Open viewing sessions are done by one person. I'm a solicitor not an estate agent but I used to help out on Sunday afternoon open viewings if the office was really busy.I was on my own.

That's only a link to the summary document. I was asking where to find each and every single individual response.

@yonic, now you just need to tell me that "75% started as children" for my bingo card.

And you only have to say Petite Jasmine for mine.

You have google. You know what to do.

Nighty night.