NUS and prostitution - confused...

[Ubik1]

They seem to haves passed a motion which holds anyone who thinks the Nordic model of managing prostitution is the preserve of right wing radical feminists.

I'm confused. I don't know much about sex work but I do know it is linked to trafficking of women and children and organised crime. I would be delighted if men were criminalised - but maybe I'm wrong?

Here's the motion but you might not be able to view it...

Yonic,

Pots, kettles, black....

I looked at the link and it is mainly an opinion piece, not evidence based. There are a couple of links to sketchy evidence. There is little meaningful evidence either way on this (surprisingly) but then, if you drive something underground, how are you going to get meaningful stats? People are not going to admit to being a criminal.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/sex-law-expert-belinda-brooks-gordon-why-nordic-model-prostitution-does-not-work-1434028

news.nationalpost.com/2014/04/03/jesse-kline-the-wrong-way-to-deal-with-prostitution/

A couple more links not supportive to the idea of the Nordic model protecting women. The evidence is very equivocal, at best.

So both sides should be allowed to argue it out, neither censored by the NUS nor this board.

This board has never censored anyone, as well you know. Personal attacks can be reported and deleted and GFs and trolls will also be deleted, but differing opinions are not.

You're still around, and you differ with most posters here on most things, right?

Yonic,

I hardly post these days...far too busy, but, yes, fair point.

It is more directing personal attacks at posters until they go away. I am never personal which is why, in years, I have had at most two posts deleted. However, when I have posted things here, people have made 'personal' (well, as personal as they could make them) posts about me, my wife, my children etc. I never delete anything about me, as I don't care (so plenty will still be around), but I had any that mentioned my wife or children deleted.

I still don't understand why decriminalisation of prostitution will improve things for women.

Surely to do it tolerably well requires vetting, health checks, licencing?

As we see from the experience in decriminalised Germany - it's still low grade, poorly protected work on a par with agricultural labour with the added high health risks both physical and mental. I don't see how decriminalising it in the UK will change that. It will just create a stronger market. Higher volumes of sex transactions drive down cost which creates more demand. The profits do not necessarily flow to the worker.

Larry - if you are happy for your own hypothetical daughter's 'services' to be 'reviewed' online on that website and not feel any outrage then go ahead and support decriminalisation.

I'm a mother of three girls and I'll tell you now that if prostitution isn't good enough for my daughters then I'm not going to start pretending it's good enough fur someone else's daughter.

Mmm hmm. And several MNers non longer post because men from f4j etc stalked and outed them.

Not condoning others making PAs on you, but noting it's not just you suffering.

Hope you more knowledgeable types will bear with us... "I still don't understand why decriminalisation of prostitution will improve things for women..." The major problem is the old 'control over means of production' really isn't it. Although it's women who own the bodies for sale, it isn't those same women who are in control of the trade. Decriminalisation in Germany has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to address this, and decriminalisation by and of itself cannot.

The 'happy hookers', those at the top end, do have that control or so they say. Even there, socialization always restricts the types of choices available to us.

Buffy, yes I was noticing all these references going to just local newssites and other anecdotal stories. Definitely needs proper review, it makes one wonder why it hasn't been done, it's getting on for long enough surely...do you fancy trying to get one started ? You know, with your other left academic foot? (sorry)

"I still don't understand why decriminalisation of prostitution will improve things for women."

At least they won't be branded as unfit mothers by social services (in Sweden for example) just for selling sex and have their children removed.

Yes, we've already debunked that one dear, do try and read the thread before drooling on it.

Can I just lol at larry never being personal. No, telling women where their boundaries should lie and what they should/shouldn't be able to do with their bodies isn't at all personal .

I doubt there will ever be meaningful stats, in Sweden the only stats will be on the men they have caught not the ones they haven't.

Over here there is the whole 80% of prostitutes work indoors yet most of the stats come from street work. Firstly I have no idea how accurate that 80% is but if it is anywhere near true then any stats that are used in the UK are meaningless as they don't represent the majority.

Given that there seem to be plenty of Swedish Escorts advertising in Sweden on the web (the sight my eyes cannot unsee) I can't see that much has truly happened in terms of reduction. So if that is true then the nordic model will not really change anything. I am not sure there will ever be a good answer with the Nordic model no customer is ever going to report a suspected victim of trafficking as that would see them punished. But are there enough trafficked victims to make some sort of exemption worth while?

sausageeggbacon11 wrote - "are there enough trafficked victims to make some sort of exemption worth while?"

How many would be enough for you?

Vesuvia, I think sausage meant an amnesty for punters who reported trafficked women under the Nordic model.

Throwing a few trafficked women under the bus is totally worth keeping the status quo isn't it?

YonicScrewdriver wrote - "Vesuvia, I think sausage meant an amnesty for punters who reported trafficked women under the Nordic model."

Yes, that's how I read it too, but I'm curious to read if "enough" was related to any particular figure.

I guess if, say, one in a thousand prostitutes were trafficked then an amnesty would have more "false positives" of punters trying to get out of being charged than if the figure were one in ten.

I don't think it was a philosophical point more a "least harm" point.

huyezod, women here who are accused of being prostitutes can have their children removed as well.

That's not about the legality or not of prostitution, it's to do with how we conceive motherhood.

Basil.... huyezod has left the building.

If only all trolls were dealt with as readily, eh?

The faces of prostitution in Australia - www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-32165949

Surprised he didn't post a link to this. It doesn't change my opinion.