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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Married names

77 replies

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 12/03/2015 16:43

DP & I were talking about marriage last night and the theme of married names came up.

I said we were fortunate because our last names go well together and he said he didn't like double barrelled names because he thinks they're pretentious and besides it's only a name so what does it matter. My response was that if he truly believed that then he could change his name but apparently that goes against tradition and is just being silly and a sign that feminism isn't focusing on important things that matter.

But this is important to me and I decided ages ago that I'd choose to keep my name on marriage. Do you see this as a minor side issue when we should be focusing on better things or is this a matter of principle?

OP posts:
PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 16:47

Of course it isn't a side issue.

If it is a minor thing, there is no reason to go with tradition. He can change his. Or you can both keep yoru own.

I did actually change my name, nearly a decade ago when I was young and less thoughtful than now. But there was no pressure.

The 'feminism isn't focusing on important stuff' is the worst argument ever. You know, I can care about many things at once. My tiny lady brain won't explode. Also, sometimes the little stuff feeds into the big stuff - like women losing carer name recognition, like women being harder to trace through history, like children seeing the male as the default...

Nolim · 12/03/2015 16:48

Your desire to keep his name is as valid as yours imo. If it is just a name then why doesnt he change his?

SconeRhymesWithGone · 12/03/2015 16:53

It's not at all a side issue.

I am very honest about the fact that the main reason I kept my name was to make a feminist statement. The societal expectation that a woman will change her name is a vestige of the common law doctrine of coverture, whereby a woman's legal existence was entirely subsumed in her husband's when she married. I fully support women making their own choices in this regard, but for me that particular fact makes the symbolism pretty powerful.

And if enough women keep their names or enough men agree to change if it's important for the whole family to have the same name, then tradition will change, as did the tradition that women were the property of their fathers or husbands.

ChunkyPickle · 12/03/2015 16:54

Who cares even if it is a minor side issue - you're not planning to dedicate years of your life to changing your name, in fact not changing your name takes no effort at all, it's changing it that'd waste your time!

Nolim · 12/03/2015 16:55

feminism isn't focusing on important things that matter.
It does (its about identity) and even if it werent, neither is tradition.

Original poster
OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 12/03/2015 16:58

Thank you - I know it doesn't matter to everyone but I think if we both change our names it signifies both of us adapting to one another, whereas taking his name comes with all the historical baggage of being the sold unit... maybe I am overthinking it but it feels like a big deal.

I did make the point that if he didn't care about names then I was happy for him to take my name but apparently everyone will "give him stick" for it.

OP posts:
meditrina · 12/03/2015 17:02

It's important that people (of both sexes) realise they have choices

He doesn't have to choose to double-barrel or change his name to yours, or blend the names to make a new one, or pick a totally new one together for both of you (or any other naming possibility you can come up with).

It's also fair to express preferences, and the reasons (good or bad) for those preferences.

But it's wrong to expect/insist on someone else making a particular choice about their future name.

If you always thought you would keep your name, then for heavens sake keep it.

And if he does anything other than express fleetingly transient disappointment that a hope of his will not come to pass, think carefully about what his reaction might mean.

Chunderella · 12/03/2015 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 17:04

You know what, the condition of 'over thinking' very rarely exists - unless one counts the sort of endlessly analysing everything your friends/mums on the school run/family/shop assistants say for hidden context.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 17:05

I would also be pointing out that he's a grown man and shouldn't be making his decisions based on his mates 'giving him stick'.

Original poster
OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 12/03/2015 17:07

Honestly I don't think he'd insist on me taking his name - we wouldn't get married if that was the case. It was more just that he was so surprised that I wouldn't automatically take his name that I started doubting the strength of my feeling about it IYSWIM? I imagine he's not given it a second thought today whereas it's being going around my head that perhaps keeping your maiden name on marriage is more unusual than I thought.

OP posts:
PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 17:10

If you plan children, you may also want to find out his assumptions on how they'd be named...

Nolim · 12/03/2015 17:12

apparently everyone will "give him stick" for it.

Tell him to grow a pair :)

alexpolistigers · 12/03/2015 19:38

You should clarify the surnames of any eventual children in advance.

Where I live, it is a legal requirement prior to getting married to sign a declaration agreeing on the surname of any children of the marriage, as both parties retain their own surnames - in fact, it is a real hassle for anyone who wishes to change their surname!

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 19:40

Alex - that is interesting. what if you remarry late in life like my Grandma. No chance of babies at 70+. Can you make up something or are there rules?

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 12/03/2015 19:41

It obviously has some level of importance, or he would change his name.

But if you find it important, that's trivial of you?

Odd.

thenextday · 12/03/2015 19:43

I double barrelled my middle name and his surname. He stayed the same. The dcs have my name.
We are currently divorcing and he is really getting worked up about me not having "his" name. I hadn't planned to change it...I want to have same name as dcs.
The more he gets worked up the more determined I am to keep my name. Legally there is nothing he can do.

alexpolistigers · 12/03/2015 19:43

No, you can't make up something. It has to be either the woman's or the man's actual surname, not a combination of both. You can agree to double barrell, but in that case the law states that the man's will come first.

For marriages late in life, presumably they don't bother, but knowing how bureaucracy is here, I expect they just sign it anyway and write any old thing.

PenguinsandtheTantrumofDoom · 12/03/2015 19:49

Interesting. Love the idea of my very post-menopausal grandma having to agree the names of her future imaginary kids!

alexpolistigers · 12/03/2015 19:53

They might argue that a menopausal woman is still legally able to adopt, or somesuch. I find here that it is easier to just sign useless bits of paper, just to save yourself any future hassle from some bored bureaucrat!

TeiTetua · 12/03/2015 20:11

I went to an Armenian wedding once, and although some of the service was in Armenian, some of the English-language wording included the sentence "May you live to see your children's children". The happy couple were fiftyish, so presumably the hope was that they'd be active senior citizens.

StillLostAtTheStation · 12/03/2015 21:41

You can agree to double barrell, but in that case the law states that the man's will come first.

Which country is that. Definitely not true in UK. You can agree to call yourself anything you like.

If you are Ms Smellie marrying Mr Sidebottom (apologies to anyone if either is your name) you can say sod it, we are not going to be Mr and Mrs Smellie -Sidebottom we shall be Ms Cholmondleigh and Mr Featherstonehaugh (pronunced Fanshaw)

There are no laws whatsoever about this. Nor are there any laws about your children's surnames.

Original poster
OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 12/03/2015 21:52

Gosh I guess children's names are worth considering too - I'd always assumed they'd be double barrelled but that's another conversation to have!

Thank you for reassuring me Smile

OP posts:
tribpot · 12/03/2015 22:05

I had a similar conversation with friends many years ago. They were both male. It went like this.

ME: I will not change my name when I get married.
THEM: But .. of course you will.
ME: Why?
THEM: Well, people do.
ME: Are you going to?
THEM: Well, no, that would be .. weird. It's my name.
ME: Er. QED.

I actually don't think this is a trivial issue for feminism, given the historical baggage attached to the name changing. I bow to your DP's superior understanding of feminist priorities, of course Hmm However, I think he needs to consider exactly why he thinks it should be trivial for you to change your name but impossible for him.

ThisToo · 12/03/2015 22:07

My DH took my name when we married 18 years ago. He's never had any stick for it from anyone. Although he is often asked why he did it which is both ridiculous and annoying really when you consider I would probably never have been asked that question if I had taken his name.