I can't get my head around the phrase "Transwomen are women".

[nikkinack]

Sorry for another thread on the topic, but I was looking at my local candidates and the only female candidate is for the Green party, and she has retweeted that phrase (with the addition "Transmen are men) a couple of times today.

It seems like doublethink to me, every time I try to unpick the statement I get all messed up in the process.

So, if transwomen are women, why call them transwomen? Surely just by defining them as transwomen you are saying they are different to women? Transwomen can't insist on women using the label cis and then lay claim to the standalone word 'woman'.

So transwomen are women, ciswomen are women. The word woman applies to people of either category, but they are still separate categories within the single word, which we can't describe. We are not the same, but to state 'Transwomen are women' is to insist that we are.

I don't know how anyone who makes this statement can square all of this. It hurts my head just trying to work out what they mean.

I just read that "jealousy" link - and my god, it's terrifying. So much hate for women. Not even hidden hate, but openly expressed hate.

I don't think it's just about fearing attacks from trans women in women only spaces, or that allowing anyone who feels like a woman to access women only spaces is clearly a risk, but what if you're at a rape crisis centre and there's someone there who was clearly born biologically male. She may or may not have had full surgery - you have no way of knowing short of asking, but why on earth should you be in a position of wondering whether your rape counsellor or rape centre volunteer does in fact have a penis? Just, WHY?

Our gender identity non-discrimination policy states that members and guests may use all gym facilities based on their sincere self-reported gender identity

Well I'm glad I don't have and won't ever have a gym membership. I'm not prepared to share changing facilities with a person with a penis.

Agree, that may be the gym's policy, but I wouldn't be a member there

Applesinmypocket your post further up was spot on.

I've not seen anyone say specifically that they are afraid they will be raped by a real trans* person.

What is a "real" trans person? By all accounts, the difference between a real trans person and a fake one is solely within the self-reported state of mind of the person in question. Christopher / Jessica Harmsworth is supposedly a fake trans person but since he has said nothing to contradict his earlier assertions of being a woman, why is he called a fake transwoman?

Trans is a term that takes in a wide variety of people. It includes males who live as men at work, but cross dress to socialise in the evenings and at weekends.

I am so confused by all of this.

I have been called a bigot on fb recently and I'm pretty sure I'm not however maybe I am if I don't want people with penises (men) to be sharing changing rooms and toilets with me.

And I am genuinely surprised that many of the feminist pages I follow are calling for inclusion and sending out what I consider to be quite anti- feminist messages e.g. "mainstream feminists are more eager to allow men into the movement than they are about allowing trans women and WOC"

It seems feminism is being attacked A LOT at the moment over this issue. Another diversion tactic from the real perpetrators and kinda proves the point about (trans women) men taking over women's spaces.

I believe Mary is a previously banned poster who has form for turning up on these threads and claiming that there are huge sex based brain differences and trans women have female brains. I suggest ignoring, and I have reported

LadyBlaBlah wrote - "mainstream feminists are more eager to allow men into the movement than they are about allowing trans women and WOC"

This is the first I've heard of this particular accusation against "mainstream" feminists. It seems to be a damning indictment of non-radical feminists (because radfems are not mainstream feminists).

Any idea who these mainstream feminists are, and which men they are eager to "allow" into the movement?

Oh I don't know Vesuvia. I've never even heard of mainstream feminism - I just see it as a blanket attack on all feminism really.

In these fb discussions it seems it's rad feminists who are seen to be the ones oppressing trans women for not allowing them into toilets, while good feminists are inclusive and allow penises in their changing rooms with hashtags of inclusion and intersectionality. It seems like there is a man pleasing element to being a good feminist, yet again.

LadyBlaBlah wrote - "a blanket attack on all feminism really."

I agree.

LadyBlaBlah wrote - "rad feminists who are seen to be the ones oppressing trans women for not allowing them into toilets"

The laws governing who can and can't use a toilet are made and enforced by anti-radfem governments, not radical feminists.

Radical feminists do not want trans women, particularly those with penises, to use women's toilets. The reason radical feminists are objecting about this issue is precisely because their concerns have not yet influenced patriarchal legislators on this issue.

Not sure if this has been linked already but I found it interesting goingradical.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/gender-critical-trans-women-yes-they-exist/

Another thread. These threads make me so sad. Another 13 pages of women agonising over their identities as women, because trans-women say they aren't women. And women desperately trying to understand whatever it is that trans-women understand about being a woman

Is there some reason why women wouldn't be interested in discussing whether the meaning of what it is to be a woman is changing?

No apocalypse. I wish we didnt have to. And also, I wish we weren't so full of self-doubt when we do. So careful to understand the other point of view

It is all smoke and mirrors Imo; gas lighting in the extreme

This is pretty thought-provoking: transgenderreality.com/2015/04/09/the-catalog-of-her-interests-behaviors-and-clothing-choices-on-gender-stereotypes-in-stories-of-transgender-children/

So many parent who seem so eager to fit their children into stereotypical boxes. They think they are being open-minded but are the opposite.