The greens and prostitutes

[IceBeing]

Be gentle as I am new to thinking about this.

I found the Natalie Bennett's comments on decriminalising prostitution pretty persuasive - what am I missing?

She basically said that sex workers would like this policy (having contributed to it) and that research from other countries indicated it was the way forward.

buffy I had a look at the amnesty thread...I totally and utterly disagree with the idea that men have a human right to sex...well unless you include wanking...I mean what exactly is the problem with wanking...underused resource if you ask me!

It wouldn't load...will try again later....

The Amnesty view on the right to buy sex is really odd I think. How much of their work goes to protect the very women they are now compliant in peddling? Maybe it is some form of perpetuating their lifespan. As with UN it feels as if what was seen as a strong arm for democracy is now turning into just another mockery using and abusing women for it's own ends.
I'd like to think it was well intentioned but given the millions of women they have helped up to this point and their fights against anyone taking away someone's basic human rights, they knew full well the dangers of prostitution. They appear to think the male urges trump women's mental and physical well being and that damns us to being second class citizens.

The comment about "teens who get offended if a man below what they consider to be good enough for them dares talk to them" would only ever be said by a man, imo

No I don't agree. I was an extremely pretty, academically bright and culturally snobbish teenager, "offended" is too strong but I was definitely bemused by boys not in my league asking me out.

Jessica your summary of the debate puts it very neatly. For me the collective harm outweighs the individual liberty.

Yes Jessica, I think you summarised well.
The first two seem to cancel each other out though, so I am going to only keep b under the 'reasons to legalise'.
Shall we send this to Nathalie to read through?

Stilllost I think you were just more confident. If a man does that no one bats an eyelid - and usually they call out jibes/insults rather than just 'give a look'.

Lion I'm still keen to convert you to abolitionism! Will keep trying...

this article is interesting on the legal problems of legalising prostitution...

1. it could never comply with health and safety regulations
2. it would be impossible to enforce sexual harrassment legislation
3. providing a non discriminatory service to customers wouldn't be compatible with a woman's right to choose her sexual partners

logosjournal.com/2014/watson/

I'd add that it would be difficult in terms of job seekers too - would pimps advertise in job centres? Would teenagers apply for work experience in brothels?

(Sorry I seem encourage people to read articles in every post! My philosophy in life is usually: when in doubt, read an academic paper on it!)

Can some one post the Amnesty link?

Is this the what about people who are too old/ugly/disabled/socially inept to find a partner and why should they be denied the experience of sex argument?

Found it.

Bit stunned by the comment below from an Amnesty report.

Should be aware of potential controversy (relations between IS and AIUK, religious groups who might have moral issues with this argument) NOTE: AI does not take position on morality

The problems with legalisation listed above seem pretty valid, to me. That is the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation. To legalise means that you have to have the State step in and legislate how things will be done. I believe in New Zealand it is illegal to sell unprotected oral sex. On the one hand, I wouldn't mind if "covered" oral were the expected norm. On the other, my philosophical position on my right to do as I like with my own body is at odds with anyone telling me what I may do.

Kim, I assume that's a public health issue though, like HCPs wearing latex gloves when touching you. It protects both sides of the interaction.

I certainly don't want it legalised but as I said before I don't think abolition is possible. You can't police what people do in the privacy of their own homes and I think being realistic rather than idealistic is the better way to go. There will always be men wanting to buy and there will always be women wanting to sell (and I'm talking about voluntarily for cash/or presents etc). I'm happy to abolish trafficking but again I think it would be impossible to do the completely. The word abolish seems too unrealistic in a flawed society.

Sorry, Lori Watson said that!

Presumably if it is legalised HMRC will get tax on it. That idea completely repulses me. The idea that child benefit or welfare is given off the backs of abused women is pretty sick.

Yy black rider.

Lion, HMRC can already collect tax on the earnings of prostitutes.

Yes Black - I was hinting at that without saying it outright.
The only way I could see around it (as in it actually being a female's opinion) was perhaps the teens in question were actually fearful and putting on their 'hard' face to avoid giving the wrong idea.

Urgh. I did not know that. I knew Kim said she did it voluntarily, but didn't really think about the wider concept of that. I am assuming it is hard to enforce though and legalisation would make it far easier?

Wow the implications of unreasonable hours, paid holidays, health and safety - the mind boggles on how the EU is meant to deal with that all when kids aren't allowed to play conkers without safety goggles!
Will prostitutes have rights to sue their employees if they get an STD or are attacked? Or if they work alone would they sue the state?

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/lifestyle/2012/07/taxman-vs-prostitutes

Buying/selling sex is not illegal in the UK, it's brothels etc that are illegal.

Lion, I'd assume most prostitutes paying tax work as a sole trader or a limited company and don't have employees.