Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

[ArcheryAnnie]

...as they don't actually want to listen to women who disagree with them in any way.

I am not including common-or-garden arseholes here, as the list would be a billion posts long and the internet would explode. I am talking about the kind of man who writes a long, handwringing article in the Guardian about how we should all listen to feminists more, but then deletes most of the comments from actual feminists that are posted on it.

The two currently at the top of my very long List are:
Ally Fogg
Owen Jones

Nominations, please.

Owen Jones needs to fuck off to the end of fuck and then fuck off some more. Odious little shit.

Hmm I'm not sure VoyageofDad counts because AFAIK he hasn't ever presented himself as a feminist ally has he AA? He belongs on a different list....

Anyone want my copy of Chavs?

LOL yes please, been meaning to read it for years!

I've always struggled to like Owen Jones when people were lauding him all over the place. I thought it was because I am not a natural left winger. Now I know that it was because I clocked him from the get go as a turd. If you wait long enough people will eventually catch on….

LOL Grimble.

Here's a great article by a gay man taking OJ to task

Gay man to gay man

Ooh and here's another great post from Stewie:

Here

Never knock "turd-dar". Tony Blair fell foul of my turd-dar too .

As you were….

I'm fucking sick of this. the thing that upsets me the most at the moment with being trans is all this, it's taken up way too
Much of my mental time and emotion and i have lost all the fucks I could give.
You know what I care about? I care about how 70% of trans people are harassed when wanting to use the fucking toilets. I just don't go in public because I'm terrified. Can you imagine being scared to go for a piss?
I'm scared of being subjected to violence just because I am trans. I'm scared my kids will be bullied because of me and this stupid, shitty patriarchal society tells everyone I'm a freak.
I hate being asked what's in my pants, or how I have sex, like its a totally ok thing to ask me instead of a gross invasion of privacy. I hate as well that I feel
I have to answer the latter to prove that me and my husband have a healthy sex life, because it must be hard for poor him or whatever shit they think.
I'm angry because I have to wait over two years for an appointment for a consultant. Can you imagine your doctor saying to you, 'well you have X, but you have to wait two years for an initial appointment and who knows how long after that for actual treatment.'
I'm fuming that I have to ask my husband's permission for a gender recognition certificate like bodily autonomy? Anyone?
Trans people are harassed, assaulted and murdered every day and it sure as fucking isn't the feminists doing it.
I hate the fact that I think this way, and think, 'FFS haven't you better things to rage about than how women's services are called
Womens services becaue it excludes transmen?' because it reminds me of dudebro neck beard wankers bitching when feminists champion causes they deem unworthy because "aren't there better things to be worrying about?" but honestly there is so much ahit I have to go up against and there is no more room in my head for feminists vs trans activists.
The patriarchy is the cause of all this. My issue is with the patriarchy.

Amen, flirtin.

I'm so sorry it is so shit.

I really, really, really hope all of this gets better (for you and everyone else), and soon. And I'm really angry for you.

Can we smash the patriarchy now?

flirtin you're not wrong about the patriarchy and how much damage it is doing to so many, and I'm sorry and furious about what a crappy impact it has on you

hear hear

You know what I care about? I care about how 70% of trans people are harassed when wanting to use the fucking toilets. I just don't go in public because I'm terrified.

Can you cite a source for this?

Can you imagine being scared to go for a piss?

As a woman who has been raped by a man in a public toilet, yeah, I can "imagine" how it feels to be scared to go for a piss. Especially now that men can gain access to women's toilets by saying that they feel like women. And as a woman who has been raped by a man in a public toilet, I would challenge a man if I saw him going into the women's toilets - if you see that as "harassment," so be it. Yours is not the only pain in the world, sorry to say.

Trans people are harassed, assaulted and murdered every day and it sure as fucking isn't the feminists doing it.

I completely agree, and I always wonder why transactivists blame feminists when they should shove the blame where it lies.

A message to Owen Jones: if you think it's transphobic for a lesbian to refuse to suck a transwoman's cock but it's not transphobic for a gay man to perform cunnilingus on a transman then I'm sorry mate, you're transphobic. If you can't process this simple thing then you're not as clever as you claim.

I completely understand why lesbians don't want to have sex with transwomen and I support them. If that makes me a transphobe then I shall wear that badge with pride.

He's not just transphobic if he believes that but misogynistic (holding women to different standards to men) and homophobic (treating lesbians as if they do not have autonomy and choice over their sexual lives)

flirtin

zozzij I'm so sorry you got raped.

It's so difficult to know how to deal with both your situations without one of you feeling scared and upset. Clearly the women's toilets are the safer place to be overall - I can't see how unisex solves the problem - but obv that doesn't help zozzij.

AskBasil good blog post

Blackrider you would almost think they were men wouldn't you?

I have no issue with people who want to present as the other gender but don't want to take dangerous hormones or have genital surgery. But proudly holding on to the outward signifiers of your birth sex whilst proclaiming you are actually not that gender at all, that's weird.

I think unisex cubicles and locks are better in general.

I would think most people would feel scared going into the set of loos (or the changing room, or whatever) that they've been told is 'wrong' for most of their life - think about it, even little kids feel as if it's taboo to accidentally go into the 'wrong' door. So there is a sense it's hugely important, which is going to put you on edge above and beyond anything else - and frankly, I wouldn't fancy going into a men's loo and hoping they wouldn't take exception to me.

I think this must be easier for trans men, as they could happily use the women's loos and be assumed to be a butch woman, most women having no compulsion to assault or abuse butch women generally. However trans women going into the mens loo are very likely to be abused or harassed because lots of men find threats to gender norms to be unacceptable and deserving of violence.

Yet that somehow becomes the responsibility of women who are expected to accept male bodied people into their spaces.

Fwiw I don't care if a toilet is unisex/all genders as long as there are no urinals. The only problem I have found with my university recently going all gender in the loos is the increase in skid marks. However I still expect women's loos to be female only.

Jeanne I agree. Some of the newer schools are building loos like that, very short open corridors with unisex cubicles.

What I can't stand is when I've been at a "progressive" conferences that relabel the existing loos as "gender-neutral", which means you can be trapped in an isolated space with a closed door (or several) and no other exit by whoever before you've even reached a cubicle.

zozzij and I'm sorry for what was done to you. It can't be easy reading this thread.

Single person unisex cubicles would also solve the other problem women have with public loos, that there are never enough of them designated strictly for women.

If they could also be like the ones in German Restplatz, that would be fabulous too.

And flirtin I'm truly sorry that you are going through this, and I acknowledge that you aren't blaming women for this, as too many others have done. I hope you recognise that many of the terrors and risks you mention are also shared by many women - which is horrific for all of us. As you say, it's the fucking patriarchy.