Men who parade how "feminist" they are but who can fuck right off...

[ArcheryAnnie]

...as they don't actually want to listen to women who disagree with them in any way.

I am not including common-or-garden arseholes here, as the list would be a billion posts long and the internet would explode. I am talking about the kind of man who writes a long, handwringing article in the Guardian about how we should all listen to feminists more, but then deletes most of the comments from actual feminists that are posted on it.

The two currently at the top of my very long List are:
Ally Fogg
Owen Jones

Nominations, please.

Urgh, what a twat. I assume he's never tweeted about anything other than life threatening issues?

I only believe male feminists if they actually do stuff. My late DH never mentioned feminist theory. He hadn't read any feminist books. He just took his turn getting up in the night for our babies, took over the house when my business took off and told me I was a genius when I doubted myself. I come from a family in which all the men, my DD, my DBs and my SSIL do stuff that proves their belief rather than trying to prove how right on they are. I'd call Owen Jones a twat if that wasn't an insult to twats.

they are just jerks i just ignore such creatures

My late DH never mentioned feminist theory. He hadn't read any feminist books. He just took his turn getting up in the night for our babies, took over the house when my business took off and told me I was a genius when I doubted myself. I come from a family in which all the men, my DD, my DBs and my SSIL do stuff that proves their belief rather than trying to prove how right on they are.

This, all day long. You see so many men coming on here and make total fucking tools of themselves ask 'what can I do?' And I think the biggest thing is - not be a dick, do your fair share, not make workplace decisions based on sex, call out blatant sexism when it's safe to do so etc. etc. That's the nub of the matter isn't it? Men as a class - including the basically decent majority - need to change their behaviour, mainly in lots of little ways, which taken in combination add up to really quite a lot

Hadn't read this thread before but have had a good snigger at the Owen Jones comments

"Like, that guy who plays Bilbo in The Hobbit? I thought "Hey, he's not that bad", and then it turns out he makes rape jokes that indicate that he has raped, or would rape if the opportunity presented itself."

Martin Freeman??????? Nooooooooo!

'Fraid so:

metro.co.uk/2013/12/19/martin-freeman-shocks-fans-by-joking-about-date-raping-an-elf-4236498/

In fairness, I get the sense he's trying too hard to say something zany and funny (he's not a comedian, of course), realises he's said something crass and then sort of tries to wriggle out of it, making out he's being a bit ironic etc.

I'm trying to hard to defend him here aren't I? It's not crime of the century but it is pretty grim that he's even thought to go there?

I'm trying to hard to defend him here aren't I? It's not crime of the century but it is pretty grim that he's even thought to go there?

In the best case, he's a shameless liar.

But I am afraid that would be a little too optimistic.

This is often the excuse given when men say horrible things. In that thread on porn-watching men, someone said that of course men would claim to watch porn, visit strip clubs, go to prostitutes when talking to their buddies.
But of course they're lying and are totes faithful husbands!

I think it was C.S. Lewis who wrote something about cowardice wiping out all virtues / bravery being a virtue necessary in order to actually have other virtues. (At least under a dicatorship, a coward would, after all, do evil to stay safe.)
Honesty is similar. If you are a good person, but lie about it, then you cannot expect people to treat you as a good person.

I am not charitable enough to assume, when a person reveals something horrible about themselves, that they are lying.

Besides, if you are famous, you should watch what you say. That he views rape jokes as something acceptable to use for the sake of provocation, that he doesn't care what message that sends to his male fans ... that's still very bad.

(I totally get why you want to defend him. I do the same thing for my favourite male authors. It's a reflex ... and one of the reasons why I prioritize female artists now. I am fed up with having to find excuses why I still like someone's art despite the horrible things they said.)

What I meant about messages ... it sends to his male fans the message that rape is okay.

... to his female fans, it sends the message that he is a rapist and/or just doesn't care how we feel.

I am sure male fans who have rapist tendencies want him to be one of them and will not think "Well, he said that, but I am sure he didn't really mean it".

I''m really disappointed:(.

My dd is 20, and in her 3rd year at university. She has had several crap experiences with men who use calling themselves feminists as a pick up line. It's very depressing.

Hmm. Tbh the same goes for some feminists. No respect for the opinions of others if they disagree.

So are we not allowed to care about anything ther than abortion now?

I mean, I get how seriously women's human rights are compromised by the 8th amendment to the Irish constitution.

But I still have feelings about other things.

That said, I am very glad to have Graham and Helen Linehan on board campaigning to Repeal the 8th.

My dd is 20, and in her 3rd year at university. She has had several crap experiences with men who use calling themselves feminists as a pick up line. It's very depressing.

If one of the first things a man tells you about himself is that he's allegedly a feminist, then distrust is advisable.

... actually, I would never trust such statements. The least a man can do is say something actually feminist instead of just informing us he considers himself a feminist.

Doing something feminist would of course be even better.

If a feminist is concentrating on a different problem, why not spend the time working on the problem you prioritise instead of taking that time to complain I.e. Tweet at her?

I have had a couple of male colleagues come up to me discreetly in the past, and tell me that they had had pay rises or promotions rather unfairly when it was clear to them I was better qualified and more experienced and should have at least got the same. They have then proceeded to go out of their way to back me up in trying to obtain redress and make things fair again.

Ultimate in feminism, that. And I very much doubt they called themselves feminists. They just saw themselves as decent people doing the right thing.

Luckily for them I am now in the position of doing the hiring and one of them is likely to be needing a job soon ... and I like hiring good and decent people who are team players ....

Little Owen Jones seems to be busy polishing his "steaming hypocrite towards lesbians" medal at the moment, and so deserves another mention on this thread.