Anti-Transgendered thread in Chat

[countessmarkyabitch]

Started off as a vague question about what makes you feel like a woman, lots of people started mentioning transwomen, naturally. Has now turned into some posters stating that transwomen are just men and shouldn't be allowed use female things like toilets and rape crisis, pretty much anything.

I find this really offensive and have stopped engaging. My personal feminism encompasses women who were born in male bodies, and supports their struggle to be recognised as women. I also think they need the protection and help of feminists as a particularly at risk group.

Is this an unusual stance? Does anyone agree with me?

Thanks for the link to the article in the Weekly Standard FloraFox. It's well worth a read. I especially liked this from the conclusion:

there is something to be said for the radfems’ emperor’s-new-clothes view of the middle-aged male-to-female transitioners who now dominate the transgender scene. It does seem odd that someone who lived two-thirds of her life as a man is now lauded as America’s highest-paid female CEO, or that people who weren’t born female gripe on the Internet about “male privilege.” It seems equally odd that a board co-chairman of a leading gay and lesbian rights organization is someone whose life experiences and even sexual orientation resemble those of neither gays nor lesbians. It’s hard not to wonder whether such stereotypically male traits as aggression, competitiveness, and libido dominandi haven’t played a role in late-in-life transitioners’ thrust to the forefront of feminist and LGBT ranks?—?and in their scorched-earth pushback against anyone who criticizes them.

heartis maybe he left his luggage on the bus or something??

Brilliant article. Owen Jones needs to read it.

Am putting it here as I don't want to risk getting the Glosswatch thread pulled: one of the signatories to That Letter, Dr Rachel Hewitt, has written a really thoughtful piece about why she signed. She writes very honestly about her experience of being raped whist at Oxford, and how it was female-only spaces which enabled her to cope with it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/02/when-i-was-raped-it-was-female-only-spaces-helped-me-recover

(Content note for abuse of a survivor in the rest of this post)

Stavvers - she of the "cis women are bigots for not wanting sex with penises involved, but it's totes understandable if trans women don't want to have sex with penises involved" - has attacked Dr. Hewitt, not having read the article at all, by tweeting that "Rachel Hewitt thinks like a rapist". Stavvers tweeted that to her 14 thousand followers. She told 14 thousand people that a woman writing honestly, in her own name, about her own rape, "thinks like a rapist".

I just want to mark somewhere that I have every respect and admiration for Dr. Hewitt, and I am so sorry she is receiving this sort of abuse.

What do we do? Where do we go from here? Where does it end?

Fortunately, I don't think it's a mainstream view at all. The problem is only a relatively small number of people are aware of the debate at all. When you tell sensible people what's going on they are appalled and easily able to identify that bio women and trans women have different experiences and needs, and that male bodied people in women's safe space is not OK.

I think the best thing is for us all to raise awareness of this and speak about it so that all the sensible people go "wtf"?

Agreed, Hermione, but the extremists are the ones influencing legislation, etc. If we aren't careful, we will end up even more stitched up than we already are.

archeryAnnie - completely agree. This is why I think we need to shine as big a spotlight on it as possible. Sensible people tend to see through the delusional self serving argument of "I feel like a woman,therefore I am what a woman is, therefore biology must be irrelevant" .

We need people to be aware and speak up so women's rights can't be eroded by stealth any more

I agree AA and Hermione that we need to speak up. The problem is that although it is is a minority view, it is becoming mainstream by stealth, particularly by extending the definition of transwoman far beyond what is currently legally recognised and by silencing anyone who speaks out about it.

And that silencing is continuing apace.

I haven't posted for years and I am so pleased to read this thread - it seems that sense will prevail after all It used to be such an antnest of mras, transwhacktivists and and fingers-in-the-ears naice enablers, I almost gave up hope.

I couldn't give a toss if someone had a penis or vagina if they were in the ladies loos!

What is going on in this world? If someone identifies as a woman what does it matter!!!!!!!!

The loos are an aside. Of course it doesn't really matter who uses the ladies. I don't want to use the ladies with men because in general they splash everywhere but it important for some.
However it does matter if a male body man is in a female prison, rape crisis centre, or competing in a female sporting competition.

The transphobia on Mumsnet is disgusting - I can't for the life of me work out why it's allowed.

Why don't you report it then, dinosaur. I'm sure if it breaks talk guidelines, it will be deleted.

My personal feminism encompasses women who were born in male bodies, and supports their struggle to be recognised as women. I also think they need the protection and help of feminists as a particularly at risk group.

A hundred times this. No it isn't an unusual stance and thank goodness for the last two days I've been berated, insulted and given the 3rd degree in another thread just for saying the majority of Mumsnet isn't transphobic and a lot of us recognise trans peoples struggle to be recognised as what they transition to and we want this place to be welcoming to all LGBTQI people.

I knew I wasn't alone in wanting to support my trans friends x

I only joined a few days ago and I'm not quite sure what the uproar is about yet, but what I do know is the comments I've seen here about Trans men and women make me ashamed to call myself a feminist.
Transphobia is anti-feminism in my opinion.

I'm absolutely appalled at the large groups of grown women who seem absolutely livid that someone would wish to live their life as they feel comfortable. Does it really pain you that much to use their preferred pronouns? To make their already very difficult life just a little bit easier by trying to be open minded?

So, so sad to read the things I've read.

I've recently found out I was pregnant after trying for some time and I hoped I would be joining a community of accepting, open women. Sadly not.