That study about men expecting women to physically move out the way...

[WorkingBling]

... I thought it was an American thing. "In England, if nothing else, men have that naturally English chivalry thing going on" I thought.

Hahaha. I am 36 weeks pregnant. Bad back. Belly the size of a small whale. My ability to make quick direction changes is completely gone and frankly, even if I could turn sideways in an effort to make myself smaller, it would be a complete waste of time as clearly I'd actually double the space I take up.

And do you know what? I get bashed by a man at least twice a day on my way into and out of the City - today I had three bashes from grown men and one from a teenager where, even though the father was giving his three children a hard time for being a bit boisterous, he saw the teenager smack into me but said nothing about that to either one of us.

I've also had a few men staring me down as they approach, making it clear they expect me to move out of the way quickly. And when they do bash me, I don't even get that instinctive English apology where everyone says sorry.

The weirdest thing is that I bet some of these men would let me go first through a door or possibly give me a seat on the tube. But when walking on the pavement, I am expected to move. And move fast.

I can't believe I had never noticed it before.

Here's the Sunday Times article from above - for those unable to get past the paywall.

"IT IS the curse of busy cities and is now the latest battleground between the sexes: who has right of way on the pavement?

Beth Breslaw, 25, a trade union activist in New York, was tired of the habit of city residents who walk in a straight line without getting out of the way for other pedestrians. Convinced that it was mainly men who were guilty, she put her theory to the test by refusing to alter her route for anyone.

She spent most of the next two months colliding with dozens of men — and markedly fewer women.

“I can remember every single man who moved out of the way, because there were so few,” Breslaw told New York magazine, which has dubbed the practice “manslamming”.

As Breslaw saw it, “if they don’t make any indication that they’re cognizant of the fact that our bodies are impacting each other, if they don’t sway a little bit to the side or move their shoulder a little bit back”, then it counted as an instance of manslamming.

Breslaw’s experiment has gone viral and generated intense debate about whether pavement etiquette really does represent a difference in the way the sexes behave or if it is just old-fashioned rudeness.

The Sunday Times put it to the test by sending three women out in London, Bristol and Birmingham to discover whether manslamming is also prevalent in Britain.

In three busy areas of London — Liverpool Street station, Oxford Street and Westminster Bridge — a female reporter had “bumps” with 31 other pedestrians; 21 men and 10 women.

In Bristol, there were bumps with 28 men and 25 women while in Birmingham, six bumps were equally divided between the sexes: three men and three women.

Hardly damning evidence of a masculine conspiracy and many of the pedestrians did not see it as a gender issue.

Liz Rudd, 30, from the Cotswolds, who travels through Liverpool Street station, said: “I don’t think it’s just men. I find that women are becoming more focused and assertive, so we aren’t letting men get away with it. Women are definitely the worst when it comes to rushing to get a seat on the Tube.”

Anita Whettell, 53, a blood donor carer from Solihull, West Midlands, admitted that she had bumped into people herself, particularly while on the phone or listening to music.

But that did not stop her suggesting there was a gender difference: “I think that it’s mainly men who do it because they can’t do two things at the same time.”

Glen, 42, who was shopping in Oxford Street, blamed “bumping” on people gazing in shop windows or at their phones, and “looking at pretty girls in the street”.

Breslaw would have welcomed Ben Downs, 34, an IT worker, from Bedminster, Bristol, as proof of her assertion. “I quite often walk into women to prove a point, actually,” he said.

“Why should it be me that has to move? They are just as capable of stepping to the side. If they want equality, they can have it. Women are much worse than men when it comes to this.”

Laura Snook, 19, a law student, from Cardiff, said: “Old men are the worst and girls my own age — they just give a really bitchy look and carry on walking in a straight line.”

Kate Fox, a social anthropologist and author of Watching the English: The Hidden Rules of English Behaviour, rejects Breslaw’s assertion that manslamming is male sexism in action on the pavement.

“The conclusion that this is all about ‘male entitlement’ and ‘everyday patriarchy’ and so on simply does not follow,” she said.

“Yes, men probably do have a greater sense of entitlement to personal space, but this is not demonstrated by these ‘experiments’. Men could simply be less bothered about being bumped into.

“Breslaw seems to be particularly cross about the fact that the men she barged into [unlike the women] didn’t get cross — they just seemed oblivious.

“She chooses to interpret this as ‘male entitlement’ and the invisibility of women — one could equally interpret it as the men politely refraining from making a fuss about a little bump.”

In fact, said Fox, most of the time “we are all [male and female] remarkably adept at avoiding collisions in crowded public places”.

Perhaps it is not a gender issue. Maybe it is age. Mike Tomkins, 68, a retired financial analyst from Wall Heath, Birmingham, said: “I don’t think there’s a difference between men and women.

“It’s younger people who do it most when they are engrossed in technology as they go about their daily lives.”

I've noticed a difference when wearing jeans vs suit. I am expected to move in jeans, whereas people normally defer to me in a suit. (I'm male btw).

larry I think you're being disingenuous here, up thread you bemoan that this topic has been "done to death", reference a newspaper article examines it, as if that should be the final word on the topic.

Buffy quite rightly points out it is if anything not in and of itself conclusive. I also notice you changed your tune from done to death to more research is needed. In essence agreeing with Buffy.

I alao don't see any problem with someone taking pride in their academic accomplishments, no matter how much you attempt to play down a chosen field. I don't really care what subject it is Buffy is smart (and quite possibly more so than I), I'm always interested in her take on things. She also did not need a PhD for me to think that.

Dervel,

I totally agree with taking pride in academic accomplishments and I congratulated Buffy on her Phd. However, to then assume that you have the final word in all discussions, rather than engaging with the issues, is smug and arrogant. Had Buffy stated that she found the study interesting or researched other studies and come back with evidence, that would have been totally acceptable.

However the tone and content of her post were de haut en bas and that is why I find her smug.

Funny you seem to have view on my depth of knowledge on statistical bias, then. Have you hacked me?

Clearly you are not a statistician, or even close to one . 95% confidence does what it says on the packet. It is wrong....ooh 5% of the time.
Equally, in alluding to gaits, confidences etc, you are getting confused what hypothesis is being tested. If bumping were due to sex, all the above would be irrelevant.

And as for confirmation bias, if I am a woman who is absolutely convinced that men dominate public space, I will notice it every time a man obliges me to move out of the way. When it is a woman, I won't notice it or maybe I will just move and not register or resent it.

For the record, as the op, I did not go out with any intention of proving anything. In fact, if asked I would have said that the New York study did not reflect my experience.

However, what I have noticed subsequently , with no intention of proving or disproving anything, is that when I walk around without the ability to move, inevitably I get smacked into by men. Not women.

Disclaimer - I often notice women doing all kinds of rude things, and men, and teenagers etc but that is not the specific thing I have been noticing recently.

Ps twisted my hips again today. Walking on wide pavement. Instinctively tried to gove way for a man. Landed up hurting myself but he stayed on his path.

Are we becoming ruder as a society? Did anyone here work in the City 20 or 30 years ago? Have you noticed a difference? Is it possible that men think, 'You want equality? Okay, I'll treat you like a man - get out of my way!'?

The OP mentions 'that naturally English chivalry thing'. Perhaps that is a casualty of more equality. The question is - do you want it back? Just some thoughts - I don't know either way.

larry that is a perfectly valid question, but it suggests to me the topic has not been "done to death", but is in fact a very open question worthy of discussion, and analysis.

Another poster and I have noticed it is really different in a village - competitive courtesy prevails! (I'm someone who has lived in villages, towns and in London and worked for many years in London so have a broad range of pedestrian experience).

I have no proof but I suspect a combination of factors may be contributing to our various impressions.

For example, it is not just that men pavement hog more, but perhaps that men pavement hog more in cities where everyone is rushing around, hurrying to work or home etc, whereas in villages where everyone is more sedate (usually) and you are more likely to meet the same people each day, courtesy by all prevails.

In fact, at risk of making myself unpopular, mums with buggies and/or several children are the worst pavement huggers in villages.. standing in groups chatting away utterly oblivious to us non-parents diving into the street to get around them.

I last worked regularly in London in the late 90s and I confess I did not notice getting bumped or charged down more by men than women, but then like most Londoners I was head down charging to or from work most of the time and oblivious to the sex of the person I was cannoning off!

One does note that in that unscientific yet interesting Sunday Times piece, there was a large proportion of male-female collisions reported in London, but not so many in Bristol or Birmingham.

Is this because London is different from anywhere else, or does it have to do with cities beginning with the initial letter "B"? More study is plainly needed.

I must live near an exceptionally polite city. I find myself and others doing the little dance of avoidance whenever there's a chance of a collision.

Ooo! I thought I was imagining this, in my workplace. Sometimes I wonder if I am over sensitive, as it is predominantly men. But, interesting to read it is an actual 'thing'

I was in the queue in the cafe at work t'other day. the queue was long and slow moving; i had just dispensed my coffee and there was no where to move forward to, so i just turned in the direction of the till and prepared to wait. The man behind poked me in the waist and literally elbowed me out of the line, so that he could access the coffee machine. It was bizarre...so i was then stood out of line and only able to rejoin when it began to move forward!!

it is a small thing but i was a bit shocked.

I notice it coming up and down the stairs; im always doing swerving and dodging, and apologising

Some anecdotal evidence. Went running this morning in a quiet suburban area.

1. Ran round a corner into an oncoming male runner. I instinctively gave way to him. He didn't divert at all.

1. A man standing in the middle of the pavement doing nothing and blocking the way - I either scrape past a hedge or scrape past parked cards. I presume he can hear me coming as I am both panting and heavy footed. I choose to scrape past the hedge. Grrr.