Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

This is the 17th incarnation of the Feminist Pub!

Here be goats, cannons and chat on feminism and related themes. Also snacks. And booze, copious booze.

Welcome!

DS1 went to school on his own this morning.

I am actually a Mrs who took DH's name. Now, I am perfectly capable of acknowledging patriarchy's role in this, but that wasn't the only reason for my doing it. I wanted to disassociate myself from my rather toxic family of origin. I think, however, that marital namechange should be available to both sexes so that it really does become a choice of the individual. This applies of course to both opposite and same sex marriages.

Oh, UptoaPoint, well done him and you.

It's past lunch time and I haven't heard from school - that means he's got there alright, doesn't it?

I think there's a slight difference between title and last name.

there are quite a few practical reasons why a family should/could all have the same last name, as well as some emotional ones.

there is no practical need at all for titles, unless you really are a President or Princess and it is relevant to the situation that everyone is reminded of that.

I really would love to see an end to how marriage is done now (not just the ceremony, but the whole joining two lives into one). It would seem far more practical to have some kind of contract which couples can draw up to declare that they are committed, monogamous, and intending to stay that way. They could even decide how long the contract is expected to last for (5 years to forever) then have a big party to celebrate, complete with vows. Any adult becoming a parent would be automatically and without exception tied into an 18 month contract to support that child for 50% of their needs, and they can do this financially and/or time and effort.

Then there would be no need for having titles about whether someone is married or not, or male or female, yet people could still define their relationships and be held accountable for the commitments they take on.

Ruler of the world, that's what I should be.

Did you mean 18 months or 18 years, kickass. But yes, I agree totally.

A couple of friends got married a while ago and, having decided they wanted the same name, tossed a coin to decide whose name they would have (he ended up changing his). I like that approach, although I remember her saying if she'd ended up changing her name it would have looked really traditional even though it wasn't the automatic decision as it might have been perceived as.

Do couples ever come up with a name other than one which one of them already had?e.g. Naming after the place you met might work (or not....!!)

Have you heard of the Wild communes where all the children were given that surname? (not what you asked but interesting example of arbitrary surname creation)

I hadn't heard of that, but it would make logical sense for a commune. Whether it worked emotionally for everyone might be another issue I guess.

A couple I know chose the name of the place they met. It's a nice name too. Also close to the start of the alphabet, which is apparently an advantage in life.
I am pretty sure I came across a family who had chosen a name like "Newbeginning". All the children had very invented names and the last name was not that close to a real name, much closer to the combination of English words.

I know a couple who mushed their names together when they got married. It turned into quite a nice name, nicer than either original name, and that's obviously the name the children have. His family HATE it, it's caused massive arguments and problems with them thinking that he's turned away from their family, there's nobody left to carry on the family name, etc. There was none of this handwringing when his sister got married and changed her name. Everyone on his wife's side of the family thought it was a really lovely thing to do, very equal, a nice new name for the start of their new life together.

A commune sounds like the sort of place where I'd go mad. Unless they have lots of walls to keep other people from me.

I spend most of my day thinking how to get away from people.

Anyway I wish we are over this woman's title business. I nearly shouted at someone for telling me why a student might call me miss when they would never address a male colleague as anything but Dr MaleColleague. I don't want to hear excuses. I want them to all fuck off ...

I've always used Ms and when I got married we double barrelled so we are his surname-my surname which caused some consternation including a man in the bank questioning whether that was even legal(!) and having to re request all my bank cards as they all got issued as Mrs despite me telling him repeatedly I was a Ms and would remain a Ms.

Annie I meant years, oops.

DH and I discussed using my mum's maiden name as it's pretty historic and our family is full of women so the name is dying out. DH's last name came from his step-dad, who grew up in an orphanage, so has no significance at all. In fact, although his mum 'changed' his name, as in she started using it for DH from when she married (and DH was 5), it wasn't legally changed until he was 19 as he had his legal name, and the name he was known by, and it was getting confusing for things like bank accounts etc. We went with DH's last name in the end, partly because he'd already changed his name a few years earlier, so another change would be more of a pita for him.

If we'd double barrelled I would have had an alliterative rhyming name that was impossible to say, so that was never an option.

I didn't even consider changing my name; it is not in my culture to do so. Although sometimes I wonder if my life would be easier without my 'furriners' name.

Fibonacci I have a foreign name. But then I look pretty foreign here. It's another reason not to change name for me.

I have an anglicised foreign name (that I didn't change on marriage) - I'm not sure it's made any difference to my life although I'm clearly "not from around here", doubly displaced once from Europe to the colonies with awkward vowel sounds removed from said last name (about 4 generations ago) then back to Europe again, with a non-European accent that doesn't match my odd name. The upshot is mostly that I need to spell my surname a lot and people want to know why I left a sunny country to move to the UK. I don't think taking DH's very prosaic English surname would have made any difference, other than making me feel assimilated and slightly resentful.

i ahve a name that is never spelled or pronounced correctly and if dp and i got married it would be very tempting to change to his easily spelled, pronounced, and somewhat elegant surname. but i'm rather fond of mine so i would almost certainly just keep it or double-barrel though that would be rather clumsy-sounding - not a reason not to do it though. if we had children they would probably have double-barrelled names or the scottish tradition of mother's surname as middle name (haven't thought that far ahead)

I think there's no such thing as an "easy" name. Mine is short but nobody believes it. DH's one is a common English name but I've had to spell it a few times over the phone to call-centres. These days all names are expected and hard at the same time.

When renewing my train ticket a few years ago the guy at the counter baulked at my name (short, foreign, I'm not offended when it's mis-pronounced, but do draw possibly unwarranted conclusions based on how someone pronounces it - and how they continue to pronounce it once I've said my own name) - asked what my boyfriends name was (English, should be easy, yet people still get confused and spell it wrong). Upon hearing it he expressed the opinion that I was probably looking forward to marrying him and getting that name instead of mine.

I was too taken aback to say anything!

Me too, Petula, no-one ever spelled or pronounced by surname correctly. It was so infuriating that I was well pleased to be shot of it when I married DH and took on his (presumably) simple 4-letter surname.

Since then, I have been astounded by how wrong people manage to get even DH's simple name! And after joining FB, where I used both names in order to allow people from pre- and post-marriage to find me, the double-barrelled version really grew on me. So I changed it legally a year ago.

So now I have a double-barrelled name where people can't seem to spell either part, and a first name which is "made-up", so everyone struggles with that too! The upshot is that when people, all poised to fill in a form or input me into a system, ask for my name, I get to enjoy the slight drop of jaw and horror in eye when I tell them my name. They usually blink a bit and ask "um, could you spell all that please?". And, I suspect that when reading my name, no-one has the slightest clue of my cultural background, ethnicity or gender. Adding Dr to the front has made it even more fun. So everyone always seems slightly surprised (if somewhat disappointed) when meeting me in person that I turn out to boringly be very white and very English. And a woman.

yy annie

"and how they continue to pronounce it once I've said my own name"

i know the feeling

"hello, i have an appointment, my name is Petula Gordino"

"ah yes, found you, Petula Gardina"

did you just correct my pronunciation of my own name??

My first name and last name, and both DCs' first and second names are Anglo-Saxon and DH's first and last name are both Celtic. Both DCs have my last name as a third/second middle name (I like it because of its history but it's one of those comedy names that you might not want in secondary school), and DH's name as their last name.

Despite all of our names coming firmly from the British Isles every single one of them has an alternative spelling, except for DD's first name and both DCs' second names. I don't think the origin of a name seems to help with the spelling-over-the-phone problem.

Native English speakers even seem to have problems pronouncing my first name sometimes, too. Think pronouncing Caroline as Caroleen.

"Are you sure?", when I spell my name. Of course I'm fucking sure.