Feminist Pub 17: The Bluestocking frolics in the fells and fens of feminism

[AKnickerfulOfMenace]

This is the 17th incarnation of the Feminist Pub!

Here be goats, cannons and chat on feminism and related themes. Also snacks. And booze, copious booze.

Welcome!

I'm having issues with micro-management at work too. The main culprit is female, and I think she interferes with my work more than she does with that of my male colleagues. I suspect she's trying to be helpful - she made it to the top in an era when nearly all the managers of her level were male. So her expectation is that I will need to do more/be better than my male colleagues to succeed. Bloody annoying though - I'd just like to be able to get on with my job without someone picking up on the one tiny thing that hasn't been done or is slightly less under control. One if my colleagues in particular is much more chaotic in his approach to his work than I am, and I've never seen her pull him up on it.

(Sorry - didn't mean to moan. I'm having a particularly bad week).

OublietteBravo if she keeps coming to just you then shes going to give other staff the impression your are needing hand holding when in truth you don't compared to your peers, can you divert her to Mr Chaos?

Apparently the sign is OK, because the contractors who put it up only have men working for them.

I said I disagree. Still waiting to hear from higher up about request for policy change. Am prepared to petition the CEO if necessary (he's very into STEM, by all accounts.)

Oh, and if you google "micromanagement and productivity" the internet almost falls over with the number of hits. How come there are still so many managers who don't get it?

Aaaaah. I have to come in and let off some steam.

Conversation today at work about diversity. It's one of the "capabilities" we're supposed to display. We scored our team on these capabilities and half said we were doing really well on diversity, half said we weren't. The half who said we were doing well were (coincidentally, not) straight white blokes. Those who said we weren't doing so well were women. Cue a conversation where the blokes got defensive and said things like "we shouldn't count the number of men and women" (this mainly coming from one bloke who has built a team that is ALL male) blah blah blah and refused to listen to those in the room who are best able to assess if diversity is welcomed (by virtue of not being part of the dominant class in the organisation).

I could cry, it was such a textbook an example of why we have a diversity problem!

I called a young woman at work a girl today.

I would like to apologise to the sisterhood and I will apologise to her next week.

it was such a textbook an example of why we have a diversity problem!

And I bet they didn't recognise that. Our levels of diversity seem to vary a lot according to the department. I have a manager who goes on about, "a mail from unpronounceable." It was from Sanjit, which I don't think is quite as unpronounceable as all that, even if you are determinedly monoglot. I also think that in a multinational company, refusing to try and pronounce names other than James, Richard, John and William, is just pathetic, but I have (a long while back; we haven't recruited for years,) seen CVs rejected because the name was "unpronounceable." I'd challenge that these days, but I didn't back then. Unsurprisingly, it's a very white department. But we don't have a diversity problem, on account of them employing me.

Oh, and while I'm here - Banished (some programme about convicts in Australia.) Started with a woman being raped, then went on to have her being flogged.

Totally necessary and not at all gratuitous, of course.

I turned it off EBear. Historically accurate no doubt, but gratuitous and effing angry making to watch.

Well, I can't tell you what happened much past those bits, it is true. I was hoping it was going to inspire me to finish my ironing while watching it.

I haven't done any ironing.

Going back to that 30% thing a moment - earlier today I had a meeting with my group - they're all in california so I was dialed into webex. It felt like quite an even balance, but looking at the list now I realise it was 6 blokes and only 3 women (including me). Though TBF it was mainly being led by the other two women and one of the blokes.

The 30% thing applies to interrupting too I think. I get accused of interrupting far more than my male colleagues - they do it just as much, they just notice more when I do it.

And I also need to rant about idea stealing. I had several of my ideas appropriated today - they get ignored when I say them then magically turn up later in the discussion as one of the blokes' ideas.

Can you tell I've had a day of pain and annoyance?

Get a notebook made with that "thank you Miss Jones..." Cartoon on it and wave it at appropriate moments?

Yes good idea.

The least they could bloody do is be grateful for their privilege. I think it's the arrogance that has been annoying me the most all day.

I must stop thinking about it or I won't sleep!

Maybe you need to come up with some phrases like "glad you liked that idea".

The least they could bloody do is be grateful for their privilege. I think it's the arrogance that has been annoying me the most all day.

"Oh, but it's not like it's a working men's club here."
"Men get discriminated against too, you know." (That is true in our department, to be fair, but that's because the departmental manager is a total tosser.)
"It's not like it used to be. Women have just as many opportunities as men. And you've got a women's network group. There isn't a men's network."

Yes I've heard all of those things too EBear. And yet almost all CEOs and world leaders are men. How they see this as the obvious outcome of systemic discrimination is beyond me. Of course, when they get the response "no one is stopping you from setting up a men's network" it's met with a baffled look - people do things FOR them.

It's possible I'm getting bitter and twisted about this!

Am rather enjoying the MI5 thread...

I've met men who are offended when you even hint that the world is not quite fair to women.

I have this particular person in mind and plotting ways of tripping him up so he'll fall over at a particularly solemn occasion.

I liked in the Guardian piece on it, reference to MNHQ's receptionist - 'father of four' called Brian. I hope he's real.

"Men get discriminated against too, you know." This is an interesting one. First, I think I'd correct them (if I felt like a fight, which I generally don't) - people who happen to be male get discriminated against, it's not because they're male that it happens. Second (someone who knows about definitional particulars is going to have to help me here) - is it technically discrimination if it's just one person being nasty to another person ie not for any class based reason?

I'm enjoying the MI5 thread too

In general men do get discrimination - positive ones.

More incomprehensible stuff to read and review today. and fucking BORED.

But it's Friday. And it's sunny (well it is here). That's something. I have a boring day ahead too. Lots of meetings. No time for lunch.