The feminist response to this Lidl Valentine Special?

[Blu]

On the Valentine page on Lidl website

Is this:

1. So cute - I luffs him, look what he gave me...
2. A great step forward: at last the retail sector has realised that Power Tools are for Life, not just For Father's Day
3. Oh, great, now women have to add DIY to the Having It All list of responsibilities

4.. Have they learned NOTHING from the Pink Bic debacle?

1. It just doesn't have enough torque, and I wouldn't look at anything that doesn't have a percussion chuck...

Well, that's generally the point of these conversations.

Discussion was about a page on LIDL for valentine's day, with a host of pink items on it presumably as gift ideas for a woman, and one of them was a pink electric screwdriver. The catalogue item clearly indicates that the item is intended for use by females by the positioning in the site, the nail-varnished hands, and then has words like "light" and "easy to use" which are potentially problematic when taken alongside the pinkness.

OP wanted to know what posters thought about the drill on the site, and offered a range of views.

Your view was, well you can get tools in colours other than pink if you trawl the web and then linked some pictures.
And it doesn't state on the page "This Is For Women Only"

So your point seemed not to respond to the OP and the page but to indicate that there was "nothing to see here".

Now you say though that the ad is clearly aimed at women.

So where does that get us? What do you think? Of the page linked and the OPs question?

Why not lots of colours for both men and women to choose from?

My point was men or women can choose to buy the pink one that is available. Or not buy it. It's not restricted to women only. That's all. Not sure why I'm being misrepresented on what I'm saying. And also under no illusion my point 'gets us' any further. Just like virtually every other post on mumsnet. But we're all still able to express opinions.

So women and girls (and boys and men) make entirely free choices. And if women and girls generally choose pink stuff and men and boys generally choose non pink stuff, this is nothing to do with society and everything to do with innate differences? Is that the angle you're coming from?

You're asking me what I think, after already summing up that I reckon 'nothing to see here'. That's pretty much what I do think. Buy it if you want it, don't if you don't.

No one makes entirely free choices about anything. We are surrounded by countless influences. But in this instance I have the choice to buy a pink screwdriver if I want it. I have the choice to buy in another colour if that's my preference. There is literally nothing stopping me. I would absolutely think it was abhorrent and unacceptable if that choice wasn't afforded to me, but it was to a man.

Mostly I thought it as funny. As an alternative to the usual chocs / teddies / scent etc.

In the wake of the whole pink / gendered toy marketing campaign (Let Toys be Toys/ Pink Stinks ), does anyone really think this screwdriver was marketed for 'anyone'? Or that men / boys would buy or use it? Though if we had one, DP would use it in the house, a screwdriver is a screwdriver.

I wouldn't buy it or be grateful for it because a) I would mistrust something so cheap from Lidl to do a robust job and b) I don't like pink as a colour, whatever it's connections.

Ah right.

What sort of things would you say aren't genuine free choices?

I would put the pink screwdriver thing in there - I really don't think many men in the UK would feel comfortable owning and openly using a screwdriver like that in front of other men. I get that you don't agree with that one and would be interested where you put the dividing line between society and free choice and why.

Or do you mean that if the option is there then that's good?

So for eg girls in the UK and boys in the UK have the same opportunities to study certain subjects, so the fact that some subjects are heavily girl dominated and some things heavily boy dominated is not worthy of interest / comment / trying to understand why - it's "nothing to see here"?

When you say girl dominated and boy dominated, do you mean number of students that study them?

This is the kind of gap you get with eg employment legislation. Where the rules say X and so the argument is well everything's fine now, despite the fact that IRL there is loads of discrimination and people (bog-standard) people have little recourse.

Not feeling able to access recourse is an interesting one. Again theoretically it's there for everyone but in practice the more privileged you are the more likely you are to access it so it's all a bit cockeyed. The people who need it most feel less able to access it yet on paper "there's nothing to see here" type thing.

Yes I mean the number of students who study them.

What else would I mean?

What sort of things would you say aren't genuine free choices?

I'm not sure I'll really be able to describe how I think on this, but I'll try. Anything consumer based I guess. I mean free from influence. We are surrounded by advertising and subtle or insidious influences. We can only buy whats actually available, which differs wildly depending on where in the world we are.

So the pink screwdriver isn't a genuine free choice? Because it's a consumer item & thus advertising influence etc?

Or have I misunderstood.

What else would I mean?

Why are you being snippy because I wanted to clarifiy that I understood something before I took the time to respond if I'd misunderstood you?

Is there much point in me responding as you don't seem to be interested in my response. I'm aware we have differing opinions on pink power tools and that therefore on that issue I get the feeling you think my opinion is wrong.

OP asked for a response, and I gave mine.

That "what else would I mean" was meant to be highlighted as a statement you'd made that I was responding to.

I'm always amazed when people jump into threads with totally arsey posts then get all fragile and thin-skinned because they don't feel people are sufficiently interested in their views. Do you do that in real life?

So the pink screwdriver isn't a genuine free choice? Because it's a consumer item & thus advertising influence etc?

Or have I misunderstood.

I have the choice to buy it or not. That's a free choice.

If I were in a country where only pink screwdrivers were available, that wouldn't be a genuine free choice.

I'm arsenic because I hold a different opinion?

arsenic arsey even. Bloody autocorrect.

Yeah I was wondering what else I could have meant though when saying some subjects were more female dominated etc as I couldn't think of another thing that I could have meant.

I suppose the only other thing would be that girls dominate some subjects as they are just better at them and boys are just better at others and so dominate those subjects but I thought it unlikely that you thought I might mean that!

But there is "free choice" between the subjects and so from your perspective the massive disparity in numbers is "nothing to see here"? Or would you think it useful to try and find out why etc?

I'm always amazed when people jump into threads with totally arsey posts then get all fragile and thin-skinned because they don't feel people are sufficiently interested in their views. Do you do that in real life?

I don't mind if you're not interested in my opinion. I just don't see why, if I'm being asked to explain my opinion, that there's any point writing it if no ones interested anyway. I don't think that makes me fragile or thin skinned.

But this is by the by isn't it.

I am very much of the view that we are all social beasts and society has very strong messages that it inculcates from a very young age and some of these messages are based around sex.

You seem to agree with the social beasts & society message thing, but not when it comes to messages around what people should do / like based on their sex? There are a few options there:

1. A belief that men and women are innately different and therefore the differences in things that they do / like are "natural" and the things marketed to them simply reflects that
2. A view that sexist messages around consumer products are not generally absorbed by the population and so it doesn't matter
3. That as long as there are other options, that counteracts any strong messages to do one thing or another

I think that's all the options?

I'm interested!

My toolset is orange. This pink wouldn't go with it at all.

I suppose the only other thing would be that girls dominate some subjects as they are just better at them and boys are just better at others and so dominate those subjects but I thought it unlikely that you thought I might mean that! That is what I thought you could alternatively have meant, which is why I wanted to clarify.

But there is "free choice" between the subjects and so from your perspective the massive disparity in numbers is "nothing to see here"? Or would you think it useful to try and find out why etc? You are incorrectly extrapolating my perspective on a pink power tool and applying it to this scenario.

You thought someone posting the things that I have (ie feminist perspective) in conversation with you on this FWR thread might be asserting that boys are naturally better at some school subjects and girls at others?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Are you serious?