SDLP leader comments on abortion

[Enormouse]

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/abortion-row-sdlp-boss-mcdonnell-claims-foetal-tests-for-fatal-conditions-never-accurate-30958551.html

I never usually post in FWR (I'm a bit scared of you lot) but these comments by SDLP leader Alasdair McDonnell really angered me and have overshadowed the recent NIHRC ruling. In the paper version of the Belfast telegraph, the article on McDonnell (and a huge photo of Bernadette Smyth) takes up much of the double page and the NIHRC gets a small box.

How is it fair that a judicial challenge that would go, admittedly a small but significant way, to changing the law for women is being dwarfed by the comments of one man?

Infelicity why are you telling me these things?

It was LazyJanePainter who asked a question that seemed to indicate that she didn't know much about NI.

From the wiki article. The political field in NI is quite different from the mainland UK.

Although Northern Ireland is a part of the United Kingdom, it has a quite distinct political scene from the rest of the country, as the Labour Party and Liberal Democrats do not contest elections there (though the Liberal Democrats have links with the Alliance Party), and the Conservative Party has received only limited support in recent elections.

The British Labour Party have a policy not to stand in Northern Ireland. Until recently it was not possible for residents to even join the party; however this was changed on legal advice. The Labour Party has also recently set up an officially recognised branch party in the region. (See Labour - Federation of Labour Groups). The SDLP MPs unofficially take the Labour whip.

Does Infelicity's post help answer your question, LazyJanePainter?

TBH if LazyJane was referring to the mainstream parties in England, then I really think she needs to do research herself, it's a huge subject + I assume she's not from the UK given that quite aside from the enormous differences between NI and the rest of the UK generally and the historical and political reasons for that (which surely most people have heard of???) it's not as if Scotland and Wales don't have different major parties as well ie even without the massive NI specific history it shouldn't be surprising anyway surely.

Sardine sorry I read your question as suggesting the point about the mainstream UK parties not standing as being incorrect.

Puffins not sure what your point is but Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative do not field candidates in NI.

If you mean "mainstream parties" for NI those parties are not mainstream for UK as a whole. Mainstream NI parties are not on the whole beneficial for women's rights.

I asked her for clarification as I assumed she probably didn't mean the mainstream parties on the mainland.

I assumed she meant the 3 mainstream parties who have a presence in, and field candidates in, all other parts of the UK, i.e Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem (although they might soon be extinct)

Ah. Maybe she will come back and clarify.

The Scottish Labour party is a bit different to Labour is it? Or not? They all "brand" according to location and some policies are different I think, specific for the country they're in? Like I think of the Scottish Labour Party as being separate from the Labour Party but affiliated.

Probably need to learn some more about that.

Infelicity... yes, I know.... that was my point, sorry you didn't understand.

The Scottish Labour Party is the section of the UK Labour Party which operates in Scotland. It's not a separate party and it's not the case it is "affiliated " with the English party. The 2 sections are 1 party.

That is a side issue, the real issue is were there not the special NI parties women in NI would enjoy the same abortion and contraception rights and advice as women in Scotland, England and Wales.

It's OK Infelicity I just read about it myself on WIKI

I don't think that's true re they would enjoy the same rights.

if they stood they wouldn't get voted in.
If they wanted a chance in hell of getting voted in they would need to adjust their policies accordingly.

Like the Scottish Labour Party - they have policies which are Scotland specific (obviously) they aren't exactly the same as Labour in England. So you'd have the NI Labour Party which would have NI specific policies although that would cause them huge grief with UK members and so I can't see them doing that.

This is a very strange conversation.

The reality is that the situation in NI is complicated and quite different to the rest of the UK for very involved historical reasons and the solution to the issues for women there isn't "just get labour and the tories to stand job done" that is a bizarre pointless, possibly unworkable suggestion that would have enormous repurcussions also and no-one would vote for them anyway.

Or do you intend outlawing the existing main parties in NI?

Like the Scottish Labour Party - they have policies which are Scotland specific (obviously) they aren't exactly the same as Labour in England. So you'd have the NI Labour Party

I doubt any Labour leader would tolerate the branches in different constituent provinces of the UK coming up with different policies on such fundamental points. The Labour party in Scotland in the west traditionally got the Catholic support but clearly Labour Catholic voters must have had to like it or lump it on social and sexual policies which went against individual conscience.

You are missing my point. There is clearly no point in the 3 mainstream UK parties standing now. What I meant was that because the situation has arisen the very unfortunate side- effect is an unacceptable (to me) distinction in rights amongst women in what is one country made up of 4 provinces.

"What I meant was that because the situation has arisen the very unfortunate side- effect is an unacceptable (to me) distinction in rights amongst women in what is one country made up of 4 provinces."

I think you have this back-to-front TBH.

The parties and politicians and policies available are a reflection of the society in which they reside. The lack of access to abortion is not a "side effect" of the main English parties not standing there. The main parties not standing there is not a situation that has "arisen". It's all much more complicated than that and linked into religion and general attitudes in society.

I think you are over-simplifying this somewhat TBH.

I mean the fact of women in NI not being able to access abortion is nothing to do with being a "side-effect" of the fact that English parties don't stand there.

That's just not it at all.

Of course it isn't!

It also has very little to do with religion. It's about controlling women's lives and making them more difficult. Both sides of the coin in NI have form for that and have done for years.

You know what really pisses me off about this whole debate? That these people will bang on and on about abortion, but show zero interest in miscarriage and stillbirth rates.

You would think that if "every life was sacred", then they would campaign for greater funding and research into pregnancy conditions, complications and the causes of miscarriage and stillbirth ... but I have yet to find one anti-abortion campaigner that even considers it.