A really self-indulgent thread about sexuality and feminism and whether it's just me.

[NotAnotherFuckingNamechange]

As the title says. I've NC because my usual name(s) are both pretty obvious, but if you're especially keen to figure it out PM me - I just don't want to die of shame by having this memorialised on the net.

So, my totally non-identifying (!) backstory. I'm bisexual, I've been out since I was in my teens. I've been in relationships with men because, frankly, it's a damn sight easier. Only, I've got more and more into feminism. I have had quite a lot of conversations, some of them with people on here, where people say that if they weren't with their current (male) partner, they don't know if they'd seek out another male partner - not because we don't like men, but because it is stressful.

I wondered if anyone would like to talk about that?

I'm currently single, and dating, and I keep on thinking, wow, I really don't want to go through the hassle of coping with someone else's male ego. Which feels horribly bigoted of me.

I must admit I also feel faintly embarrassed to be doing a teenage 'questioning my identity' because, for goodness' sake, I've been out for more than half my life and it really shouldn't feel as if I have to explain myself. And yet, I do.

Please patronize me gently, keep the eye rolling to yourselves, etc.

Sorry, just read your OP again because there was something that struck a chord and I couldn't verbalise it.

You mention not wanting to have to cope with someone's male ego. Where feminism was liberating for me was in realising that I don't have to cope with that kind of thing. If only I had known this when I was younger I would have been able to walk away from the wrong men, I would have realised that it's not worth it simply to have a partner to go to a wedding with etc etc. I would have been more comfortable with the softer geeky men I was naturally more drawn to, I wouldn't have been ashamed of my lack of desire to commit to a lifetime union. I would have realised that the norms of society didn't have to be my norms.

What I would give to have felt this way in my twenties. Or I could have been a bigger arse. Who knows ?

blis - that made a lot of sense. I don't think I am still bruised, TBH, but I do certainly feel that sense that people will judge in all these ways - not necessarily negatively, but they'll all have opinions!

I'm sorry it's been so rotten for you. I have liked your posts on here, and it's trite to say, but I had no idea.

upand - yes, of course, I wouldn't be claiming that. I suppose I am nervous, because in my day to day life I know a lot of very sweet, well-meaning women, who identify as 'queer'.

And what they mean is something like 'I kissed a girl once, and it was ok' or 'I sometimes like to wear blokey clothes'. Or, even, 'I'm bisexual but married to a man'. And then, they - completely innocently - assume that 'queer' is also the appropriate label for all lesbians, including those whose experiences are so immensely different from theirs. And that sort of thing makes me very uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

I don't think it is less labelling. It's not quite fetishising oppression either, but it's not a million miles away.

blis - cross posted - oh, but HOW? I can never tell which are the 'wrong' men. I hate that feeling of chatting to what seems like a perfectly nice guy, and suddenly being dropped into some kind of chatting up where I feel like a lump of not-very-intelligent meat.

And, I think even with nice men, there's the awareness of that dynamic being the norm.

I have this idea that dating women would be easier because women would get me, they're softer, less combative etc but I know that's just social conditioning on my part - that I expect women to perform in that way. My feminism doesn't always overcome my conditioning.

And life ain't bad - I've just learnt that it's easier to say I'm happier on my own than to say I don't want a relationship, well, not a conventional living together one.

Anyway, never really considered that bisexuality was seen as a lesser sexuality, not really fully accepted by straight or gays but thinking about it, I've only ever heard negative views on it. The jokes about having your cake and eating it, not being able to make up your mind etc etc. I always thought it would be liberating, not constricting. Another example of the blinkers I unknowing have.

I think that aside from social conditioning, there's 'easier' in the sense of not necessarily having to have that translation issue of 'yes, you're nice, but the privilege'.

I'm not doing a 'wah, wah, my hard life' thing about bisexuality. I'm fine and I've had it great. But, largely understandably, people do want to pigeonhole you, because that's part of patriarchy, isn't it? Everything must fit the binary.

Do you think that maybe "educating" your male partners about feminism and how it mattered to you was almost a part of your relationship identity/serious relationships filter and you don't really know how to refocus that/pass that test with a woman?

Or... Not?!

I think it might be an age thing, upand. People on here are pretty much the only people I know who don't automatically use 'queer' and look surprised when you say you're bothered by it - but, because such a big part of my feminist discussion happens on here, I really don't feel comforable with it.

yonic - maybe so, dunno? I don't think so TBH. I really enjoy talking about feminism with women (I'd be in the wrong place if not!). I just mean, it's not like my male ex was some kind of unreconstructed misogynist or anything.

I think I feel as if I'm not good enough, you know?

Not good enough for who?
Not good enough for you by the sounds of it.

Your problem is you spend way too much time worrying about what other people think.
Stop worrying and start living.

Good enough for who ?

How many big life changes have you had this year ? Finding your way through all that is challenging even the good bits and now you're questioning whether something that is an intrinsic part of you is good enough ?

I know you're not looking for validation but you're light years ahead of where I was at your stage in life but self awareness can all too easily turn into an introspection that holds you back.

Is there an element of worrying about missing out on the acceptance, conventionality, children (although that may not be too much of an issue nowadays, but more difficult than a heterosexual relationship) of being in a relationship with a man as opposed to a woman?

Aah, just read the thread again.

This someone you have a thing for ? Does she have a problem with you being bi ? Is there a need to identify as a lesbian to fit into her life ? Because that way lies madness.

I get that there's a faux edgy, cool vibe surrounding sexual identity these days and that there's a backlash against those cool kids who are just experimenting. I can see why some lesbians could be cautious but surely if someone is lovely enough for you to like them, they're lovely enough to see that you're genuine and not just trying out women for fun ?

Why do people over think things all the time? Why can't people just be?
You know what you want! Go get it! If it happens it happens, if it doesn't then it doesn't.
Relax. Enjoy xxx

People can really drive themselves unnecessarily round the bend.

I'm bi. I won't be with men again. I mentioned this to my eldest (12) recently, because the dc have only been aware of me being with their father and one other male. In response, she said...

"MUM!...
You are SO freakin cool!"

Not quite relevant but I felt the need to share!

...actually, it is relevant. I'm completely comfortable with being bi, as are my friends. I'm more than happy not to be with a male again! The only people I would like to be completely comfortable with it are my d,dc!

Kids are so adaptable. As long as they are loved they love you back!
If adults don't make a big deal of it then kids don't either.
What's all this bi stuff anyway. I might try it. I was saying to my dd tonight I can't imagine ever being with a bloke again.

Admittedly, I hadn't read the whole thread

Misspickle, are you a LAM? I read recently that there is a whole label dedicated to those who become or revert to lesbianism, after having children. Ergo, there must be billlions of LAMs! LAMs are a thing.

Wrt feminism. I realised I was bi (or of fluctuating sexuality or a LAM or whatever!), long before I realised I was inherently feministic in my views. Being into women doesn't benefit my feminist ideals. It benefits my Amazons of myth ones

Relationships with other human beings are hard per se, though male privilege can certainly be bloody annoying. Or worse.

It's so hard to pick apart one's own sexuality, isn't it. As a happy militant spinster I am really not sure if underneath I am straight, gay, bisexual, asexual or just an unidentifiable commitmentphobe. But hey, I like my life so who cares.

I'm comitt phobe Irene. No question. And I love it. I'm bolloxed if ANYONE is ever touching my TV remote or opening my fridge.

I'm ridiculously independent. It has offended the men I've been with but not the women I've been with

I haven't been with anyone for two years and I'm not intending to be for some time!

No, three years!

Well I'm nine years single amantes

Ooooh, I'm almost jealous! It's quite blissful, isn't it?