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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

sorry/thank you

180 replies

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 07/01/2015 20:41

A few months ago I posted, asking about feminism and making some generalisations, assumptions and the tired old 'we don't need feminism anymore ' got rolled out.

You all gave me a kick up the backside and told me to read about feminism. I did so, and it's revolutionised the way I think. I can't believe I insisted that we are treated fairly and equally. I'm reading Everyday Sexism at the moment and I've cried at bits, the inequality and pain that women have had to endure and the doors slammed in our faces on the basis of our sex.

Thank you for opening my eyes to the truth.

OP posts:
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GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 09/01/2015 00:05

Oh do bore off.

tegetega · 09/01/2015 00:15

@PuffinsAreFictitious

So you admit you can not find a recent example of an advert like OvenPride which is sexist against women. You have to go back decades to find one.

Just as I thought.

GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 09/01/2015 00:19

Hey, you know what?

You're TOTALLY right.

We shouldn't be feminists! Hey, hey ladies, over here! This man here has posted a link. Lets read it, and have a jolly good think about our foolishness.

Silly us, wanting some kind of equality after all these centuries.

Now, let's just pack up our collective hivemind and go home.

Devora · 09/01/2015 00:22

Look, tegetega, sexist ads, just for you: www.buzzfeed.com/robynwilder/ridiculously-sexist-and-racist-adverts-from-the-present-d#.qwVoaXY9g

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 09/01/2015 00:22

Gilbert, I'm un-burning my bra as I type this.

Devora · 09/01/2015 00:28

And, for the record, I think that men are sometimes falsely accused of rape and that is despicable and devastating. I believe that men are victims of domestic violence and I have no interest in minimising that. There is no incompatibility there with my (radical) feminism and I don't know why you think there would be.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/01/2015 00:39

Oooh, lookit, my fellow hive mind drones have done it for me. There were just too many to choose from.

tegetega · 09/01/2015 00:59

I don't think a pink prittstick compares with a t-shirt saying "boys are stupid throw rocks at them"

sorry/thank you
tegetega · 09/01/2015 01:00

Just imagine if that t-shirt said "girls" instead of boys?

One more question what do you think of this and the responses? (below is a saved copy of a mumsnet thread)

www.freezepage.com/1361272012WIIXBIOSDD

scallopsrgreat · 09/01/2015 01:05

Yawn. They're never original are they.

BertieBotts · 09/01/2015 01:06

Just ignore it. It will get bored soon like the last one did.

tegetega · 09/01/2015 01:14

You certainly wouldn't be yawning if it said "girls are stupid throw rocks at them"

MoominKoalaAndMiniMoom · 09/01/2015 01:32

Grays I'm currently reading Everyday Sexism, its tough going as so many of the stories are heartbreaking and angering in equal measure, but well worth a read.

OP posts:
GraysAnalogy · 09/01/2015 02:07

Thanks moomins I'll start it tomorrow. I don't even remember downloading it funnily enough, maybe my phone is telling me something...

specialmagiclady · 09/01/2015 07:08

But I don't see how engaging in lively discourse with someone like that blogger and saying "sorry, sister, you go too far for me" would make you a) a man-hater and b)not a feminist.

I don't think that it is ok to threaten violence to men more than it is ok to threaten it to any and I think it's a good point about the guy with the shirt.

But....but... Women are subjected to this kind of violent threat and scrutiny about their clothes daily particularly if they put their head above the parapet (musician, News journalist, academic) and it is extremely tempting to think "what if the boot was on the other foot?" How can we make men understand that sexual violence and insecurity about our appearance stalk us daily? Maybe the only way for them to "see" it is to feel it.

I'd like to think that most men could have the scales fall from their eyes by reading Everyday Sexism - who now sees the patriarchy everywhere like I do - but they would have to click on the link first. I'm not sure I can wait that long.

For years women have exercised their power in ways that were "acceptable" to men - in my circle growing up and family, the men were agreed to be a bit stupid in spite of being President of the Law Society, business leaders etc and the women wielded enormous power behind the scenes using "feminine wiles": subtlety, social networking/climbing, downright sneakiness etc.

Some were suffragists (granny etc) but not radical.

But after a hundred years of feminist activism there is so much still to do. It is tempting to want to smash the patriarchy with a hammer instead of carefully unstitch it with a qwik unpik and restitch it.

We need that divergence of approach, because no battle was ever won on one front.

All political movements proceed in a zig zag fashion with pulls from the moderate to the radical. Why are moderates labelling themselves as anti-feminist?

That said, DH just told me that staff at Oldham Athletic have had death threats over Ched Evans. Unhelpful and stupid.

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/01/2015 07:12

One small point.. the death threats at Oldham? No complaints made to GMP, even though they specifically asked the board member in question. They were told that no threats had been made, just some low level Twitter abuse.

Sorry, but I like facts.

scallopsrgreat · 09/01/2015 07:53

What have alleged death threats at OA got to do with feminism Confused?

PuffinsAreFictitious · 09/01/2015 07:56

According to the actual mob, feminists made them. The feminists who are struggling against rape culture allegedly made death and rape threats.

specialmagiclady · 09/01/2015 08:14

Thanks for the Oldham clear up. Realise my post was a) Rambling and b) not fast enough (fat thumbs)

BertieBotts · 09/01/2015 08:19

Sorry I'm really lost. Where are we/were we before the troll invasion?

scallopsrgreat · 09/01/2015 08:22

Oh right Puffins. So what you mean is when someone does something allegedly violent we'll hang it on the feminists.

Not sure what feminists or feminism can do about that. In fact that's the whole point. Sounds to me likea silencing tactic. 'Ladies look what happens when you stick your neck above the parapet - you are just as bad as the man you are objecting to.

People will always find excuses not to engage with feminism. They'll always find examples of why feminism is A. Bad. Thing. Or what they perceive as the bad things about feminism to an inordinate degree. Because it threatens the established order.

ChunkyPickle · 09/01/2015 09:04

The sad thing is, women don't need 'comedy' t-shirts about throwing stones at them - there are plenty of places in the world where it actually happens to them:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30400690
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11876955
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7516238.stm

Like Bertie I think there is a big difference between a man wearing an inappropriate shirt on TV with sexualized images of women on it, and a woman stood outside at a protest with no top on holding a sign.

ChunkyPickle · 09/01/2015 09:05

Also, on Oldham, is it not a glaring bit of misogyny that the alleged threat was to rape his (presumably totally uninvolved daughter) - not the man himself.

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