Feminist Pub 15: The Bluestocking hangs up its, err, stocking and hopes for a chatty Christmas and a Feminist New Year

[YonicSleighdriver]

Festive greetings!

This is the 15th incarnation of the Pub and is meant as a place to drop by with random thoughts and meandering chats, on feminist or other related themes. Anything you want to mull over but not necessarily start a thread about. Alternatively, get some booze and snacks and hang out! Lurkers, newbies and oldbies welcome.

We have a pub goat, a feminist cannon for firing at crazy sexists and we cheer each other up when patriarchy grinds us down...

Last pub drinkie linkie:

Pub 14

Hi Alchemist, welcome to the pub, we're nice, honest!

And no Parking, you're not overthinking, that kind of lightbulb moment can be really horrible, especially when you realise that no one else has noticed it.

Thanks. At least you don't think I'm mad. The no one noticing was probably the worst bit, yes.

You know, had the gender roles been reversed, and a "lucky lass" kissing a boy, I think people would have noticed. I think there would have been surprise, and slightly embarrassed chuckling.

Hi Alchemist, welcome to the pub.

Parking, I've started noticing things like that too over the past couple of years, and it frustrates me that so many people think it's petty to even notice it.

No I don't think you're overthinking Parking. The more I learn about the need for feminism the more cross I get and the more isolated I feel.

Which is why I like the pub

It's a definite first world problem, but this is the world my kids are growing up on, and bits of it are rotten. I can see this sort of material being used uncritically throughout their preschool and school education, just because no one actually notices it.

When you've finished with the cannon Parking, I'd like to turn it onto the TV after the advert I just watched. Various beautiful blonde women are kissing, getting steamy together and disappearing into rooms to get it on. The advert is for...condoms. Because what every lesbian relationship needs is something to put on a penis. WTF?

Remind me not to schedule evening server migrations the day before I have a 9am meeting...

I'm in agreement that the small things do matter, and I find it weird how many people don't notice or care.

Also, signing in for the sick brigade. It's been over 3 weeks and I'm not getting better so I went to the doctor today. I need a sick note as I'm meant to be doing a presentation for college tomorrow eve and I cannot speak at all. I have anti biotic a now but if this is viral it won't make any difference. Also, could all be a secondary issue from my fucked up thyroid so I may just have to wait it out until I see the specialist. I was meant to be going out every night this week, but instead I am off work sick, again.

Give me the cannon, I have viral infections and crappy thyroid so to take a shot at.

The last pub dropped off my TIO but thanks for the new pub!

Sorry to hear of poorly folk, I think it's a signal that the end of term is nigh (even for those who are not beholden to the education system calendar)

Here is an interesting blog post I saw this morning obsessionwithregression.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/how-likely-is-someone-accused-of.html?m=1

Thanks, pg. This link is interesting too:
ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf

That looks interesting, thanks. Will read on train later

I just want a rant about the pockets of patriarchy. What the hell is the point of a trousers pocket that you can't even fit a mobile phone in? It might fit a tissue in (though probably not a whole Kleenex man-sized tissue.) I put a tube of lipbalm in one pocket, but rash actions like sitting down push it out of the pocket. Clothes with no pockets really annoy me, but these are almost worse, because they make you think you have got pockets, but they're so shallow, you can't usefully put anything in there.

In having this rant, I realise I haven't been close to men's trousers for years - but I don't remember them ever having stupidly shallow pockets or no pockets - they always get proper pockets you can put stuff in, unlike women's clothing.

Agree re pockets - is v annoying, and means women often end up putting all their important/valuable things in a handy package on a strap, nice and convenient for a mugger to grab.

I've rowed with (well, more "had an animated discussion with") dh about this - his view is that if handbags are impractical then women shouldn't use them. I invoke convention and social conditioning, and he says women should be a bit more sensible about things (see also heels, bearing responsibility for family birthdays, putting up with dps who do fuck all around the house...) I think he sees where I'm coming from these days, but we still differ on the degree to which we think it is easy for women to break out of these things.

But if you had trouser pockets to put things in, you'd ruin the shape of the leg and so look less visually appealing. Surely having nicely curved thighs is far more important than silly ideas about carrying small things efficiently?

I don't use a handbag 95% of the time, which is why I believe in pockets.

Women's trousers have to be ridiculously tight at the top no matter what the style, and would therefore not work with sensible big pockets.

Anyway, if nobody minds I shall help myself to a mulled wine and rock gently in the corner? (still no news)

I see what you mean about pockets, but I hate them. I get them removed from all trousers I buy (except jeans). This is because the garment trade appears to believe that women should have no bottom and no thighs, so my trousers are always rather snug, and pockets are unusable as a result - they just gape open and look silly and I can't put anything in them as there isn't room.

I still miss the trousers of my youth. I grew up when very baggy trousers were in fashion. The sort young men would use to display their underwear. Those trousers were practically made of pockets. You could carry anything and everything in them, so long as you had a belt.

A mug of hot Ribena for me please.

O no Annie I hope you hear before the weekend!

YY re pockets of patriarchy. I had Next trousers on yesterday, put my phone and a handful of change in the pockets. On sitting down, the whole lot fell out onto the floor, because the pockets are about 1mm deep and cut at a ridiculous angle. GRAH. It fucks me right off.

Also, the suit jacket I am wearing today doesn't even have real pockets. Fake ones "for show", yes. Usable ones, no.

Also I've never thought about the tight trousers thing before but you are so right.

I attended DD2's nativity play this morning. She was an angel. Many girls were angels, even the angel Gabriel, who, as I'm sure you all know, was actually male in the story. The girls who were not angels were stars. And because all the girls were being decorative silent angels/stars in sparkly dresses at the back of the stage, 7/8 of the narrators were boys. Not to mention all the male shepherds. Why had the rampant sexism of nativity play casting never struck me before? What's wrong with some male angels or female shepherds? And a fair mix of narrators?

Of course if I say anything to the school they'll look at me as is I have two heads.

Not only do these trousers have useless pockets, but the waist is looser than I realised (they're okay on the hips), and I have been walking round the office yanking them up from time to time, which no doubt makes me look v professional and classy (though better than said trews falling to my knees.)

Tell your DH - if he wants pockets, he goes into a shop, buys trousers, the pockets are just there. If women do, it's probably a three hour trek round the shops to find some.

I also wish our jackets had internal breast pockets. I think these would be ok to design as the contents sit where we go inwards anyway and are largely flattish (passport, smartphone) - so why not??

Oh, I have had the pockets argument many times before. It really pisses me off, and is one of the reasons why I love jeans so much - good pockets. But never put your phone in your back pocket, then go to the loo without removing it first. (Or anything else, but phones are particularly delicate)

I never used a handbag when younger, but now I have a job where I can't wear jeans every day, and I have to carry all sorts of cards in my purse, I do need something, so a handbag it is.

Oh, and I also have a whole rant about nativity plays. Not just the roles, but how they're always on at a time when working adults can't get to them, so kids who have a working mum (generally) are always left out. But any event that involves raising money, and presto! it's on when working parents can get there to hand over their dosh. And dd's UK school gave us just a few days' notice of what the costume would be - how were we supposed to buy stuff if we're at work?

Junior schools seem to still have a very set expectation that children come from a 1950s household, and kids whose family set up isn't like that end up being really left out of things.

A family story which might out me, but as I really like everyone I've met from here, sod it

My lovely Grandfather, in the dim and distant fog of history, went to a dame school for a short while aged about 3. They did their nativiy play and, predictably, all the boys were cast as shepherds and all the girls were cast as angels. Well, he did not wish to be a boring old shepherd, he wanted to be an angel, but was told that he was a boy and must be a shepherd.

On the day of the show, all the terribly grand mamas and/or Nannies were seated, all the children were dressed and ready, but as the curtain went up, it became apparent that dear Grampy had taken his shepherd's costume off and was there, with the angels, as naked as the day he was born.

He was asked not to come back ever again.

I would vote for the pockets of Patriarchy to get the goat cannon treatment. You can't even put a bloody pen in them without it making a bid for freedom every time you sit or bend down.