Hooters in Newcastle

[cosysocks]

I'm quite nervous posting here as you wonderful women seem to be a lot more articulate than I am. So as the title suggests Hooters are trying to open a branch in Newcastle, this disappoints me so much. However I don't feel able to concisely say why apart from I feel it is blatant sexism and belittles women to nothing more than breast and a pretty face. Is there anything that can be done do you reckon? www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-could-set-hooters-bar-8178710

As long as no women are forced into it I don't see the problem. Businesses like that make big business for a reason.

What reason is that, Disney?

men like to see waitresses. Women like the attention and the tips.
Would I do it? Probably not because I don't like that attention but I know many women who thrive on it.

Some women like to be "seen by men". Not all women need defending against the patriarchy.

But all women are damaged by it, Disney.

Being seen as sexually desirable is a wonderful thing for men and women. The problem is when it becomes commodified in a way that divides women into the desirable and the not; the buyable and the not. That harms women inside and outside the circle of desirability/buyability.

Would you want to take your pre-teen daughter there? If not, why not?

I'll be honest with you - I would take my DD because it really doesn't bother me. There is worse things in the world than women in tight tops and short shorts. I live in Newcastle and I've seen worse in the city Centre

Not all women are bullied or forced into the job role. Give them some credit- it might go against some people's grain but if the individual enjoys their job then who are other people to speak on their behalf? Yes, there are some who would rather not be in the job, but it is cause and effect. If you apply for a job, are successful and are offered the job, and you decide to take the job, then that is your choice unless someone is holding a gun to your head.

It's a bit like if you shit yourself after straining on purpose. Are you going to blame the person who fed you?

I get the impression that some people think that everyone who uses the way they look as a source of revenue are vulnerable thickos who need to be spoken for.

If you are so strongly opposed to this sort of establishment, speak to your MP instead of blaming the girls who work there or even Hooters itself. Supply and demand... they don't owe your moral code anything. If I knew that opening a restaurant like that would make me a shitload of money, I would do it in a heartbeat. Honest but true

*'Shocking, maybe, but true,' that meant to read. I got distracted for a sec by OH.

Not sure anyone is blaming the young women who work there, there are many reasons why they work there, some because all they know is how to use male gaze to their advantage, for others there will be other less palatable reasons, but yes, we are saying that the way Hooters runs it's business is misogynistic. Basing a business on the exploitation of women is misogyny. Then saying that that business is a family establishment is, at best, deeply cynical.

There is demand for all sorts of things that harm others, most of them are legislated against, therfore supplying them carries certain risks.

You may not mean to, or intend to, but if you take your daughters to places like Hooters, or she is exposed to pg3, lads mags etc - then you are implicitly teaching her that women are to be judged and valued on their looks (which they are - but that's what we're fighting against!), that her value is in her 'beauty' - and by beauty I mean, as in how desirable she is to men.

This can lead to distorted body image, eating disorders, boob jobs at 16, and a whole host of other issues linked to her self esteem - this problem of young girls' self esteem being linked into their looks is a huge issue. It damages young girls.

As you are a mother of a young daughter, YourKids - I would seriously recommend Kat Banyard's book "The Equality Illusion' to you - as she documents reams of research to support this.

Puffins people are saying that these women are being exploited. If they got a letter through the post from the government saying it was mandatory for them to work there, sure, if it went against their moral fibre. People choose to work there.

People are always saying about how minimum wage workers get ripped off. I work for minimum wage, but I have the choice to go to Uni to try and get better job prospects, but I don't (I'm not particularly studious, among other things), so I don't blame anyone else but myself. I'm not saying that everyone else on minimum wage is doing it through choice, every situation is different. I'm all for ownership of the choices I and others make. I only bitch and whine about things outside of my control (usually )

Not about Hooters per se, but the dynamics of tipping in ordinary restaurants - it's part of a series of blogs describing the experience of someone who ran two restaurants in San Diego, one of which banned tipping entirely, the other didn't:

jayporter.com/dispatches/observations-from-a-tipless-restaurant-part-5-sex-power-tips/

The first part describes how the no-tips restaurant regularly got unusually strong negative reactions from a certain segment of their clientele - namely men of about 30-55, and suggests that it's because it removes power over the waitress.

Having accompanied some young male colleagues to Hooters, that power dynamic was pretty much smack you in the face strong there. I noticed their behaviour and attitude towards our waitress was much worse than I'd ever seen from them before or since. It is basically all about pandering to the male ego in a way that brings out the worst in clients, and that is essentially what I dislike about the place - that the whole attitude towards women is fundamentally misogynist.

Women create a lot of body issues for other women.
I don't have a problem with pg 3 etc because my DD will know everyone is different. I do think many women give each other hard times because they should look a certain way. I believe in female empowerment by letting women choose what they want. Not everyone who works in hooters/pg 3/porn industry are victims.

Sabrina I don't have a daughter, not sure if you've assumed that to make a point.

I do have a son. And I of course will do my utmost to bring him up to respect women as his equal, regardless of how they look.

You can appreciate the feminine form and realise that woman have other things to offer. Only unintelligent, callous people think otherwise.

"Women create a lot of body issues for other women."

Really, that is a very simplistic way of looking at it. Women may compete with each other, want to show off their good looks - it's natural, I've done it myself. But it is social conditioning, women being conditioned by society in male-desirable (often unrealistic) standards of beauty. Women may partake in it, but they are not the cause.

It can become all-consuming for women to live up to these standards - it is what they intrinsically value about themselves as a person - and that, IMO is damaging. Women should be valued for more than their looks, their sexual desirability, and we should all be striving to teach our daughters this. For their own well-being.

Sorry - post was aimed at DisneyDivaWoo:

I'll be honest with you - I would take my DD because it really doesn't bother me.

Yourkids - you can appreciate the female form, without condoning it being exploited for profit.

In my opinion, it isn't exploitation unless the person is not able to give their consent but is made to do it anyway.

I know loads of people (especially on MN) disagree. I know all the arguments against women using their bodies and their looks in the world of work, because I've read lots of threads related to this before. People get extremely passionate about this kind of thing, but I just can't, so I'll leave it

Many, but not all.

Hooters isn't appreciating the female form, though: you would go to an art gallery or a ballet or similar for that if you REALLY wanted to do that.

It isn't even exactly about ogling and gawking. It's too public for that. It's bringing pornography and sexual desire into something tame, fun, harmless, except that it isn't. Someone's boobs are not someone's entertainment.

Right, mytartan. Hooters is not about appreciation of the female form - it's about sexual titillation and using that for profit- all in a family-friendly way of course.