Is the constant misinterpretation of Feminism ignorance or wilful misunderstanding?

[messyisthenewtidy]

The other day at work I had a book about feminism on my desk and my colleague jokingly said "oh gawd, you're not going all feminist on us are you messy?!" I replied that I'd always been a feminist and proud of it and they looked at me all like I was a bit odd.

It made me think that all my life feminism has been understood in our common language as a bad thing. Everywhere: in popular films to newspapers etc. From women saying "I'm not a feminist but..." to the common phrase "I believe in equality but feminism has gone too far" to the instances in my life where men, upon finding out I was a feminist, have gone out of their way to bait me and tell me why feminism is really a form of female supremacy.

I suppose my question is: How did this happen? And the people who misunderstand feminism - are they just being ignorant of what it really is or are they wilfully misunderstanding in a conscious attempt to dismiss it?

It's very interesting to me that the exact same idioms and memes are used about feminists now as were used against the Suffragists.

On the subject on man hating - I can honestly say that I've rarely seen anything written by a feminist which is man hating. It might be critical of men as a class, but there's little hate. The hate seems to mostly come from anti feminist men and women. Most feminist separatists seem to just ignore men, and that REALLY pisses them off!

Buffy

Nobody is born feminist. I hate people for the choices they have made, not for the nature of their birth.

Nobody is born a rapist. It is a choice that a person makes that sets them forever outside the boundaries of what I'd call human. Hating rapists and abusers is an entirely legitimate response. Hating those who share birth-derived characteristics with the rapists and abusers would be immature.

I struggle to be open-minded and suppress the prejudicial beliefs I have as a result of my experiences, but for some like me it will be forever difficult to disassociate feminism with emotional and financial abuse of those I care about and physical and emotional violence directed against me as a child.

it will be forever difficult to disassociate feminism with emotional and financial abuse of those I care about and physical and emotional violence directed against me as a child.

You blame feminism for abuse? I am curious to know why that is, but of course if you'd rather not say I understand.

So you believe violence and sexual exploitation are good qualities to expect in a person? And yet you have been the victim of abuse and know the havoc that can wreak? I am confused, are you saying the abuse you suffered is a bad thing but the abuse that people suffer in porn or at the hands of people who are violent are good things?

You seem to abhor rape, yet you are clearly in favour of porn. You do realise that a large proportion of porn depicts rape, don't you? As in, actual rape, not "just" pretend rape.

Not feeding the GF seems sensible advice here.

Agreed Puffin.

If you can understand the point, feel free to address it.

If not, feel free to ignore.

For me, feminism is about recognising and correcting imbalances of power within our society (which is still very patriarchal).
It is about challenging inbuilt assumptions about male superiority and rich male privileged - all based on the power imbalance they benefit from.

30% gender pay gap, 148 out of 160 MPs are women, 1 in 4 women will be sexually assaulted during their lifetimes (and yes, some men get assaulted too - but interesting the vast majority of the perpetrators in both cases are men), only a tiny fraction of rapes make it as far as a successful conviction (but any attempt to talk about the reasons for this attracts vast swathes of idiots who want to talk about the even smaller fraction of false rape accusations), we don't legally have abortion on demand (two doctors have to sign to say it's needed for medical reasons)... yes, everything in the garden is rosy, isn't it.

I don't think you can lump every issue that statistically speaking affects one gender more than the other together and make it an "ism". Or you can but I don't think it helps to solve the issues. And it can result in sexist assumptions, for example if carers' pay is raised as a feminist issue, what does that say to male carers?

Sexual violence is a criminal justice issue. No-one except criminals thinks it's okay. It can by its nature be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt which is what the courts require for a conviction. I don't see what putting the feminist label on it does to help solve that, and again it seems to be saying to male victims that they don't count, and to the vast majority of males who think it's just as abhorrent as I do that they're somehow part of the problem.

If you seriously believe women aren't oppressed in western society catkind, then there's no point in even engaging with feminism.

So welcoming. I'm a person who's passionate about equal rights. I probably agree with you about the vast majority of what you would call feminist issues. I just don't agree about the label. And you say there's no point my even engaging in discussion?

Oppressed is a very strong word. We have the vote. We have education. We have access to every profession. We have equal rights in law. We have generous maternity leave and pay in law. We have anti-discrimination laws. There are women at the highest levels of every profession. Sorry but that's not what I call oppression.

Ok then catkind. No one is asking you to engage with feminism. Coming into a thread full of feminists saying "there's no need for feminism" is a bit pointless really. Do you expect us all to say "Oh you know what catkind you're right. Our years of research, political analysis, personal experience and understanding were all bollocks. Thanks for your wonderful insight!"
If you believe there's no need for feminism, good for you. Off you pop.

I was originally trying to answer the post title which accused people (I suspect including me) of ignorance or wilful misunderstanding. By suggesting that different people understand different things by the term feminism. Perhaps they're talking about a different version of feminism to yours.

Then admittedly digressing slightly to explain what I saw as a linked subject, why some people do not subscribe to the label of feminist despite feeling strongly on issues of equality.

There's no point in engaging with feminism
I found that insulting. There's a point in engaging in discussion because I feel strongly about many of the same issues you feel strongly about. There were threads recently about why there isn't more involvement in the FWR board. So I can't join in discussions here unless I think women in the UK are oppressed? Really? There are people in this world - women in this world - who are truly oppressed and we aren't it.

Thanks buffy, you live up to your username.

That sounds to me like a description of a victim of domestic abuse, not western society as a whole. (And in my experience domestic abuse is roundly condemned as a crime by society as a whole.) Is that what you're talking about here, or do you feel women as a class are subject to Civilised Oppression? Not a rhetorical question, I'd really like to know.

Catkind
I disagree with your argument that we are not opressed. Yes we may have access to every profession and equal rights in law etc as you say but only in theory. In practice this is often not the case for many women. I think you are perhaps choosing to ignore the facts but I can't imagine why...

cailindana

"My question is, if these guys were so afraid of pregnancy why weren't they taking steps to avoid it, either by refusing to have sex without a condom, refusing to have sex at all, or ending the relationship, given that they couldn't trust their partner? The only way a woman could be pregnant with their child would be to have unprotected sex with her, which is an active choice made by the man."

(Just to make clear, this is certainly not a majority of guys, but certainly from different places on the internet seems to be discussed sometimes)

Generally it would come down to the woman was/said she was taking the pill. Some guys would have trusted her, but then she "accidently" got pregnant and some may not have been sure but were niave and thought it would work out. What would you think of a guy who you'd been going out with for 4 years who demanded to wear condoms (effectively telling you he doesn't trust you)? It would destroy the relationship, and so the guy then destroys the relationship or doesn't wear a condom and potentially gets her pregnant.

PuffinsAreFicticious

"Snow, you might want to revisit your post about mental illness and have a bit of a goggle for some facts. Because it was light on those."

I was trying not to go toooo off topic! Trying to keep it short, but for example with my experience bipolar then it is a combination of genetics, chemicals (serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline) and lifestyle/stress. However it still is not fully understood and there is a lot of debate.

Like that phrase. It's the unconscious (sexist) assumptions of the well intentioned people I spend half my life being furious about.

I wouldn't describe the result as women being silenced or discredited or lacking in self respect though. I just can't recognise that description as being anything like typical. This forum is I believe mainly women and on the whole we're a confident, assertive and often argumentative bunch. And that reflects women I meet in real life too with very few exceptions. And now I've fallen into trying to generalise about women as a whole which is far too large and diverse a group to generalise about.

I don't think I've seen the victim-blaming threads - is this the Ched Evans stuff?

mimi, I genuinely don't recognise oppression as describing women's situation in our society. Feel free to educate me but it's just not what I see, not really even by buffy's description of civilised oppression which I admittedly hadn't heard before.

In practice I see women having different aspirations, and I wonder why that is and if that would be less so with less of the well intentioned underlying sexism. I don't see women wanting to be in science or in management or in engineering and being blocked from that path.

I think when it comes to Feminism there are women who are so aggressive in how they convey there message they put other women off instead of capturing their attention.

Some of the women on this particular forum are a perfect example of it.

So how did it come to this? For me the answer is obvious - some women scored an own goal.