Girls beating up boys

[Plymouthsupporter]

Has any girl on here ever beat up a boy?

Ooh, I like it.

But it could be construed as ageist...

Sanity, I'm sure you wouldn't want your 15 yr old niece walking round threatening to bite boys in the penis, but as a "self defence" to an intrusive response, it was fine. As with the "how much" discussion, the man, if he was an extra level of creep, could've said "yeah baby, I like it rough" if he had been determined enough to force his agenda.

Quite. Where is AsAMan? Why are so many posters defending him/her? Why has s/he not come on to expand or apologise? Why do lots of posters seem to know exactly what s/he meant, when s/he hasn't posted since that first time?

Holy Fucking hell. Godforbid I not be on Mumsnet and actually get out of the house. I won't "defend" myself because anyone who isn't trying to pick an argument and pretend anyone gives a tiny fuck about their sexual inclination would see exactly what I meant. If you want to be a special precious snowflake about your sex life, go right ahead. I literally do not give one whole fuck what people do consensually in their bedrooms. or in an alley/hottub/ allotment.

Some comments made upthread about "you can't afford it" being problematic I can see your point but I also feel like in the real world saying "I am not comfortable with that statement" (or whatever was mentioned as an alternative upthread) is not useful because you are not supposed to be comfortable with their statement. They are trying to make you uncomfortable and you don't need to acknowledge hat it has worked.

So I answer back in their language (as better explained by yonic, seven and several other posters as well)

Go home dad...you're drunk"

that however is excellent.

AsAMan, I honestly don't give a shit if it's comfortable for the person on the receiving end. I think it's problematic from a feminist perspective that it's considered ok and even praiseworthy for women and girls to be talking about themselves and their bodies in a commodified sense. It's been pretty well thrashed out in the thread.

Agree that the go home dad comment is excellent. And you know what? It focuses the comment on the perpetrator.

I honestly don't give a shit if it's comfortable for the person on the receiving end.

Not sure what you mean by that, you don't care if a woman is made uncomfortable by sexual harassment?

I've read the thread so realise it has been "well thrashed out". I'm responding to the 200 or so posts about something I said though. And the probably 50 posts wondering where I was and what did I actually think.

No - I was agreeing with you. The person on the receiving end of the comment is the pervy male. I don't care whether they're 'comfortable' or not, and neither has anyone else in the lengthy discussion on this thread. It was a really odd remark, tbh.

My 15yo DD, Yonic, not niece.

And I think Jassy has put it very well. I don't give a shit about the recipient of the put down, but am not happy with subscribing to the idea that women's bodies are always for sale.

AsAMan, as you've read the thread you will know that very few posts were actually about you and why you weren't answering. I did wonder why so many people felt they could speak for you, however. But it seems clear that lots of people agree with you that it's fine to say that women's bodies are always for sale, but that the price might be too high, because that's a "pithy put down".

I disagree with them.

However, if that was the only thing that came to mind in the heat of the moment having been accosted by a perry male on the street, then it's understandable. I think that using the same "pithy put down" on an Internet forum, when you have a little more time to consider your response, is more problematic, though.

It is deeply out of order to say that all the women on this thread who have disagreed with you, subscribe to the idea that female bodies are for sale all the time.

I get the feeling that you are enjoying being really quite nasty.

To accuse women on a feminist board of supporting activities such as trafficking because they refuse to condemn children for their use of language when they are sexually harassed by strangers is just such a horrible accusation that I don't think you even believe it. I think you are trying to get a rise out of people which is up to you, but bloody hell, what a thing to say.

What was a really odd remark? That I don't think validating a sexual harasser with the comment "that has made me uncomfortable" is useful?

You and sanity both seem to be responding to something i haven't actually said. It's not about the harassers comfort, I was pointing out that they were trying to cause discomfort to the woman. So we don't need to say, "actually I really don;t like that". They know you don't like that because they are trying to make you feel that way

disengaging with you now because I sense goadiness.

I did wonder why so many people felt they could speak for you,

Because they knew what I was saying? I was using English not interpretive dance, correct? it was hardly a fucking subtle putdown.

Seven and AsAMan, I'm somewhat taken aback by your responses.

You are so desperate to defend your right to say "you can't afford it", without actually thinking what that phrase really means.

Well, knock yourselves out. I'm not stopping you from saying it.

Y'know, no one is saying that a woman or a girl shouldn't say "you can't afford it", because that would be offensive to the creepy male. I am merely suggesting you consider what you are actually saying, ie that if they could afford a big number, you might go for it, because, like other women, you are for sale.

And I don't really think you believe that all women are for sale in that way, so why are you so desperate to say it?

You are so desperate to defend your right to say "you can't afford it", without actually thinking what that phrase really means.

You're right, I'm just so desperate to defend my right to say it and I'm just not clever enough to see there is anything wrong with it. Zark too.

Some comments made upthread about "you can't afford it" being problematic I can see your point -ASAMAN

Ok so I get that "you can't afford it mate" is generally a bit problematical -sevenzarkseven

Okay, fine. It's problematic.

So, I'm guessing that you, as a grown woman on an Internet forum, will think twice before using it again.

And none of us will berate our teenage daughters for saying whatever they have to say or do to get themselves out of the frightening situation of being accosted on the street by a creepy man. (Which is, I think you'll agree, an entirely different scenario.)

I subscribe to the notion that female bodies are not for sale. Ever. Hence me thinking "you can't afford it" is a "problematic" put down.

And I absolutely and unequivocally condemn activities such as trafficking. Thinking one does not exclude the other.

And there is a big difference between what a young teenager says in the heat of the moment when a man is behaving in an unacceptable way by shouting at her in the street, and what is typed by an adult woman on a forum on the internet.

Lots of typing on MN is pretty off the cuff. If you think someone has posted somewhere you enjoy going in order to get some stories for his wanking pleasure, but you aren't allowed by talk board rules to tell him to fuck off (which of course you can in real life, if you feel safe to do so) then I doubt many people would draft and consider their response at length!

Shall we adopt "go home dad, you're drunk" as the wank troll put down for the future? All those in favour, say Aye.

I say Aye.

AsAMan, I should have responded directly to you sooner. I was, and still am, struggling to put my thoughts into words in a way that won't come across as a personal attack. Which I don't want to do.

I understand that you didn't mean to offend me, and I get that your comment was "off the cuff" as it were, but at the same time, I have had a number of occasions, most of which were on this board, where the fact of my sexuality, the fact that I am a dominant woman who likes BDSSM was used to belittle me and put me down, and to outright say that I must be a pro domme who got paid for sex. And I reacted to your comment as a result of that.

I appreciate that you didn't mean it like that, and I appreciate that you have said you understand why the insult is problematic.

I am not sure whether I fit in FWR and am not sure that I will engage on this board any more. Much to think about for me.

Aye!

So, I'm guessing that you, as a grown woman on an Internet forum, will think twice before using it again.

It was 1am I have 3 children 3 and under. I have one who is a milk monster. It wasn't my best or my most feminist admit it was a little bit funny though. I won't use it again. I will from now on only use "Go home Dad you're drunk" due to Fuck off being a banning risk.

frau It was literally nothing to do with judging BDSM it was just because that's where the OP was going with it. Like Yonic said about blowjob behind bike sheds, I'd have made the same response. We have one long time regular who is quite open about her sexuality and it can be described as un"vanilla" (hate that term) as possible. I don't think anyone has given her any grief (not that she'd let them...) on FWR

Have just found this thread and having read through the 10 pages, it is a relief to see some sort of consensus emerging.

It's a no brainer to me. I could never image saying "you couldn't afford me" in any circumstances. It wouldn't enter my mind. I really hope it would not enter my daughter's mind.

I can see if someone has, as a child, accepted that language into their repertoire, and has never re-examined it as an adult, it can be perpetuated.

However here we are all being given the chance to examine a phrase which further embeds sexism and objectification of woman, and it is difficult to understand how its use can continue to be defended.

Several people have repeatedly given much better alternatives worth repeating : raise an eyebrow and say "yeah, like you're so sexy", "crawl back under your rock", "go home dad - you're drunk", putdowns in French (!), various looks and gestures, in particular biting the top off a banana. Obviously different situations will call for different responses.

< makes note to keep banana in bag at all times>

Sorry to return to the well used parallel, but would we think it was sensible for disabled people to repel shouts of "spastic!" from trolls on the street with "not spastic enough to talk to you"?

AAM, I think we were talking entirely at cross purposes. I don't know where you got the idea that I was in any way interested in making the perv comfortable or not with phraseology. My interest in the phrase was about how women themselves internalise the idea that their bodies have a price, and how fucked up that is, and how maybe it's something we can talk about here. Not sure why it warranted an attack, to be honest, so I'll assume we misunderstood each other.

As I've made pretty clear, but it's worth saying again, if I were going to intervene in an on-the-street harassment situation I wouldn't be focusing on that phrase, I'd be focusing on making sure the woman was safe and the man knew he was scum.

But I was kind of hoping FWR was the sort of place we could talk about those sorts of phrases without being told to get a sense of humour or what have you. Might be time for my brief delirking to end.

I have had a number of occasions, most of which were on this board, where the fact of my sexuality, the fact that I am a dominant woman who likes BDSSM was used to belittle me and put me down, and to outright say that I must be a pro domme who got paid for sex.

Frau Have the feminists here really suggested that if you're a dom, you must be a prostitute?

I wonder if you misunderstood one of the comments I made.
I'm very tired of pro-BDSM arguments in feminists discussion of violence against women. So when I saw that the Ghomeshi thread was turning that way, I "preemptively" wrote down some typical pro-BDSM comments as a way of getting over with so to speak. I was frustrated and I regret posting it. I was mansplained quite recently that BDSM was nonproblematic because sometimes women are paid to beat up men. Ridiculous, but actually a common comment. That is why I wrote "what about the pro-dommes." It had nothing to do with you.

Briar - it wasn't the pro domme comment just after I'd said that I was a dommethat pissed me off, to be honest, it was the "IKR" you posted after I defended Dommes and said I didn't get paid to domme men.

I don't get paid, I never have. And for you to say "I Know Right" just after I posted that, it came across as rude and dismissive and I took it as an implication, after I'd said I don't get paid, that you were saying I was lying and I did.

But, thank you for saying you regret posting it. And I really don't want to keep something going. Because I am learning a lot on here, and feel that I might have something to contribute, and I'd kind of like to stay, in here, if that would be ok