Why a lot of women don't come on the feminism threads...

[Scarletohello]

So I posted this question earlier, why don't more women come on these threads ( considering how many women are on MN)

The replies saddened me. Are we doing something wrong? I remember a thread some time ago asking how many women lurk on the feminism threads but never post. I was shocked by how many women read these threads but didn't feel able to join in. I don't think feminism has to be particularly intellectual and I would like to be able to educate more women about feminism, how it affects women in many different areas of their lives, offer support and talk about what we as women can do about it.

Please have a read of this thread and tell me what your thoughts are. I want us to be as inclusive as possible as it affects us all...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2222959-To-be-a-bit-dismayed-if-4-million-women-visit-this-site-why-are-there-so-few-posts-on-the-feminism-threads

Look, I don't know who has talked down to anyone, I know I've never tried to (I'm another academic).

While, if you don't like it, just fuck off isn't a good solution, the thing that Unwitting is getting at is that laying the problem of talking down at the door of academics is unfair in the context that it happens anywhere.

The sentiment that is expressed over and over again, that academics are too interested in theory, is pretty hostile and unfair. Theory matters anyway; thinking your position through and measuring that against the thinking of others, is the basis of ethical action as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly bella I can think of several posters I don't agree with in general on FWR. We really aren't the borg. Occasionally I see things differently, most often I still feel the same way, but can see their POV too.

There are 2 or 3 posters who I don't even think post anymore who appeared on every SAHP thread ever. And were positively vile about women who sah. SO anyone who saw those threads would assume oh those nasty feminists hate SAHMs. But actually I almost never saw them post on any other thread in FWR, I saw them regularly post in those kind of threads outside FWR too though which means to me that they just had issues with stay at home mothers and no interest whatsoever in feminism really.

I won't apologize for them, because they are nothing to do with me and certainly not feminists.

Spero, not everyone currently an FWR regular was here when Dittany was. I've no idea what proportion that might be.

I was on FWR then but on MN a lot less than now as I had a non sleeping 1 year old so wouldn't say I was a regular then. I know various FWR regulars disagreed with Dittany at the time. There were bannings and the board was restructured. I know this more by osmosis than having noticed it when it happened.

I said upthread that following posters round MN calling them rape apologists was bad. It's shit that happened to posters but there's been a bullying poster in the Doghouse before who was banned and I don't see threads about her years later (maybe there are!)

I am sympathetic that you had a crap time and I'd love it if you continued to post here and gave the board a second chance.

X posted with a million others!

I actually think the theory/academic side is really rarely brought up. And as I said, I can follow it so it isn't that highbrow. You do occasionally get discussion about what it is like for them in their places of work doing what they do because there are a few of them and they have it in common. But what's wrong with that? Why shouldn't they be able to discuss it? I talk about the problems I face as a SAHP with other posters. Some one else might discuss the issues they face working on a till. As long as patriarchy is the root of the issue it's all valid to discuss.

Also, it's actually just fucking massively rude to Buffy and Jeanne, who have been so careful and generous, so willing to draw people in and open up discussion on these boards. I can't think of two posters more careful, more inclusive, more committed to actually democratic and not elitist dialogue.

I know people find my posting style more aggressive but I see a fuck load of people on lots of boards being way more aggressive, hostile and through that, silencing. I have never moved actively to silence anyone or talked down to them or treated their disagreements with me as a fault of their education, understanding or intelligence. Though I did say an MRA, a self identified one, was a massive idiot, once.

I just wanted to say that I usually lurk and occasionally post. I find the FWR board informative, thought provoking and on the one occasion I have started a thread, very supportive. Thank you.

I can't think of two posters more careful, more inclusive, more committed to actually democratic and not elitist dialogue.

I agree.

"Yes feminism should be for all women."

I think the answer there isn't to try and all speak in a similar voice, but in as many as possible. And accept that while not all voices will appeal to person A, some of the ones that person A dislikes will be pitched just right for person B.

Would it sound really hippyish if I said we should embrace our differences?

Thanks Mimi.

X post times a million, sorry everyone

TheBogQuenn "Intellectual masturbation"

I find it cliquey, patronising, over wordy (

Ouch.

" I would be liable for a flaming I reckon, should I disagree with the party line."

Have you tried?

Of course if you don't want to, that's fine. But since you've taken a minute to post on this thread, maybe you have got some interest.

but I won't start talking in down wiv da kids language

I would like to see you try though buffy

Also, one more time in defense of FWR and then I may leave the thread, I name change constantly so I am not FWR Royalty (IYKWIM) so I am not someone poster recognize and feel they have to treat me like a special snowflake and I would say that I almost always get treated politely and listened to.

Bella not hippyish at all. That's how it should be IMO. Feminists like many movements for change have always disagreed amongst themselves. Isn't that how we get things done? Conflict isn't always bad I feel

Where I live a woman once told me that because I have large breasts I wont have a lot of testosterone in my body so won't be good at practical things.

FWR is an important refuge for me and I would hate the level of conversation and debate to change here- even if I struggle with the trans stuff or feel there is a party line about some things.

I have never seen anyone talking down to anyone and I don't care if it is cliquey- I read threads here most days and it helps me feel less isolated.

mimi Agreed, disagreement can be hugely productive, even heated disagreement, if it's done from a POV of trying to improve things (rather than disagreeing just for the hell of disagreeing)

"Where I live a woman once told me that because I have large breasts I wont have a lot of testosterone in my body so won't be good at practical things. "

I.. er... what? That's bizarre, also that means I'm either imagining my PCOS or my boobs..

If I am being 'fucking massively rude' to anyone by having an opinion and expressing it then I am afraid I can't apologise for that.

but again, again, the minmisation. If Dittany was 'hounded off' then good. It should have happened a lot sooner.

Sorry Buffy, I recognise the enormous amount of good work that you do - and I do appreciate the patience that it requires.

I am grateful to anyone on the internet who takes the time to respond politely and take on board other people's viewpoints.

But a specific question was asked and I have answered - only to find the response from some is
a) it all happened a long time ago
b) it wasn't in fact a problem
c) you are harping on/scraping barrels.

If I had just crashed into another thread about heteronormative crocheting or similar, I could expect a level of impatience with my harping on. But I am answering the specific question with my specific experience - you don't have to agree with me but I heartily detest the attempts at mimimisation.

Yoni

Thanks for acknowledging my post

I do have an interest but no where near the level, of what I perceive to be "acceptable". I don't agree with a lot of things on the boards, or at least, don't agree to the degree that other's do. So I don't see much point in me posting as I honestly do feel it's all the things I mentioned.

And I freely acknowledge I'm unable to articulate what my "angle" is very well in the written word (and I'm even worse verbally IRL)

That said, I have learnt some things and been able to refer more confidently about them IRL. It has changed my perception slightly on some things. I guess Feminism isn't a massive part of my life. But if I were to post that in the section I anticipate a big ol' stream of posts along the lines of "So. You don't think that having the vote, equal pay etc is important hey? HEY?"

Generalisation of course, but that's about the gist of it.