Now the term FGM is cissexist? WTAF?

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

elegantgatheringofwhitesnows.com/?p=2069

By the very brilliant Louise Pennington.

How can they try to erase the lived experience of violence against women by banning a discriptive term for what is actually happening?

"It is not “cissexist” to talk about the biological reality of women’s bodies and the damage done to them within a capitalist-patriarchy. Frankly, even the suggestion that it is “cissexist” demonstrates a fundamental inability to actually understand the reality of lives of women and girls in our world."

And not just 'are there any trans men who have had this done to them?' but 'are there any trans men who have had this done to them and whose theoretical understanding of trans is the same as the particular one held by these activists?'
Thing is, this 'I have always actually been the sex I have transitioned into' belief is NOT universal to all trans people - some understand their histories as 'I used to be the opposite sex but now I am this one.'

noble All the trans activist I ever see are transwomen. I don't think honestly give a fuck about actual transmen who may or may not have had FGm done to them. I think they only care about someone using a word that leaves them out and implies they aren't real women.

Noble, I agree. I'm not sure the "offence" is perceived to be against trans men who feel alienated from their past experience of FGM by the terminology - if so, that would seem more understandable. It seems to be more about trans women who simply will not ever experience FGM.

I guess this is a small number of activists rather than a large number of trans people?

Tunip Yep, and they get abuse for daring to think differently to the TA's

I agree that these TAs only care about the implication they are not real women.

noble you said above:

I'm completely baffled by why a trans woman would want to identify as a woman if the word 'woman' is now meaningless in that it can be claimed by anyone.

What exactly in the word 'woman' are they identifying with? Is it a gender stereotype thing?

What can the word female be applied to?

I think the answer is that they don't care. The transgender theory is utterly individualistic. The only thing that matters is the feelings of the individual TW claiming to be a woman. It doesn't matter what being a woman means, just that the TWs' view of themselves is endorsed by women in general. There are many different descriptions of transgender:

• "I have always been a woman / female and have a female penis"
• "I was a man but now I am a woman"
• "Woman = gender (feelings conforming with feminine gender stereotypes) female = sex" (this is where attempted allies usually come to grief)
• "I am male / a man but I hate my life and body and I want to live as a woman"

I'm sure there are more and that's not getting into genderfluid rubbish.

There are also different reasons put forward including "woman's brain in a man's body" (now not accepted by the "always female" crowd), "identity is what I say it is", autogynephia (almost never admitted but often evident) etc.

They don't care about women as a class or what might happen to women as a class in the future if they get acceptance of their view of womanhood. Unfortunately, feminist thought that focuses on women as individuals instead of women as a class will not have any framework to analyse this which, IMO, is why those feminists think gender critical feminists who analyse feminism on a class basis are horrible people who hate TW.

When it comes to FGM, they don't analyse why FGM is inflicted on girls and women because they don't recognise the class impact of being born female and raised to be a woman. On another thread a few months ago, a TA told me there was literally no need for a word to describe that group of people born with XX chromosomes with egg producing reproductive organs who may actually or potentially give birth to children because it simply wasn't necessary. With this sort of thinking, how is it in any way possible to analyse why FGM, selective abortions of girls, reproductive rights or any other women's issue happens?

On another thread a few months ago, a TA told me there was literally no need for a word to describe that group of people born with XX chromosomes with egg producing reproductive organs who may actually or potentially give birth to children because it simply wasn't necessary.

Wow. Does show just how importnat they think born women are, we don't even merit our own descriptor. Men and trans people do of course, just not women.

I suppose another thing is that default is male and women is other. Hence many things have the word women's appended to differentiate from the normal men's which has no prefix.

So if you can't use the word women, this affects all this stuff which women have taken so long to be allowed to do in many cases. The men's stiff needs no introduction or prefix and so continued interfered with.

Don't know if that makes sense.

Men's stiff lol sorry men's stuff

Continues uninterfered with

Fgs

Freudian slip Seven

To be clear, I said TA but it was a female ally, not a TW who said that. Even more shocking though that women are willing to put themselves last to the extent they will deny the very existence of women so as to avoid hurting the feelings of some men. Or maybe not that shocking.

I suppose another thing is that default is male and women is other. Hence many things have the word women's appended to differentiate from the normal men's which has no prefix.

I don't know if that's where you are going, but I feel like the whole transwomen thing is basically "I don't feel like a man, therfore I must eb a woman. Because what women are is "not men"."

That's how someone who has never been a woman can claim to feel like a woman (despite not having a clue how it feels) because really they just don't feel male.

There you go - just proves what I said a bit upthread - we're at the bottom of the pile again.

ARE any Transactivists transmen, does anyone know?

This complete fucking nonsense.
Men are not necessarily men, woman are not necessarily men. Gender is a social construct - therefore any gender categorization is essentially utterly pointless.
However, it is being used as a stick to beat young people, with no voices of their own, into submission. This is being done purely to acknowledge the lack of clarity between categories, which have been established as socially constructed nonsense?

They don't care for the very real experiences of young girls and women (or anybody else for that matter) in this world, everything in their head revolves around them and their mental health issues and they want everyone else solely focused on them, by law if necessary. It's called egocentricity and it's an increasingly common disease amongst spoilt westerners.

They need to be sent to an impoverished country or refugee camp to live until the reality of other people shocks them into pulling their heads out of their arse.

They should not be allowed to hijack women's rights, it is incredibly offensive and sexist for them to do so.

Anyone who wants to shut down campaigns and activism that help little girls who are held down while their clitoris is hacked off with no pain relief is a despicable excuse for a human being. Trans activists need to learn what they should have been taught in toddlerdom - everything is not about them. That is the root of their issues.

I'm struck by the similarity to the tactics used by 'gamergate' supporters. Releasing personal details, rape threats, threats on women's families. Do these things happen to men?

ZombiePuffins says nope, but the truth is: yes. i have known men who were doxxed (details released) and had their families (wives and daughters in particular, of course) threatened and/or swatted (report to the local police for something live peadophilia or drug dealing, or both. Whatever it takes to get a visit from the SWAT team, who bang down the door and actually ask questions later.).

The cases I know of are a bit aged, dating to when the practices took hold in the gamer community. The one I know most about was swatted about a decade ago, his marriage has since marriage broken up (the swat didnt cause it, but the trauma and aftermath didnt help) and his ex has used the peadophilia based swat against him in child custody hearings. So the damage is ongoing, and his current girlfriend has been drawn in as her home has to be inspected by social worker to meet the courts approval for his son to visit. (This is in California, before anyone questions any of this as not how things would be done here.)

Fascinating, the supreme irony of TAs. They jump up and down demanding to be female yet exhibit zero of the stereotypical gendered female qualities of care, nurturing and compassion and ring the bell when it comes to the stereotypical MRA qualities of arrogance, superiority and entitlement.

It's a mad mad mad world, as the old film said.

And people are taking this shit seriously?

They don't care for the very real experiences of young girls and women (or anybody else for that matter) in this world, everything in their head revolves around them and their mental health issues and they want everyone else solely focused on them, by law if necessary. It's called egocentricity and it's an increasingly common disease amongst spoilt westerners.

I think it also comes from a very peculiar idea of being a woman. They talk about the first time they tried on make up secretly and tried on their mum's clothes. Because they see this stereotypical idea of gender as being what a woman really is. SO that most women don't find those things "super special" or even relevant is erasing who they are.

I was raised to be ashamed of sitting with my legs open, to think I was weak (even though I was bigger and stronger than most of the boys my age), to be afraid, to ignore sexual harassment as boys being boys. That's what being a young girl really is in most cases.

I wonder if you have men in Muslim countries fetishising how "lucky" young girls are for getting to wear burkas and not leave the house. I think it's why they hate radfems and "butch" lesbians so much. They don't tend to perform femininity so ironically I don't TA see them as real women.

MEOFD I have said that to TA online before. They don't feel the analogy works because trans people are the oppressed and we are the oppressor.

Women oppress them

I think I am a cat. I have always felt like a cat. I don't like being in the rain, just like a cat. I think I will have fur realignment surgery so that I can be more like the real cat-like me.

TBF how many transacticivst are there really? It's all the "I'm such a fucking right on, liberal, pole dancing, porn watching, loves a spanking choice" feminists and popular feminist media that are even giving this any time that is a problem. If collectively we all said "come on now, this is all just a bit silly" we'd have no issues.