Would you get rid of the titles "Miss" and "Mrs" and use just "Ms" if you could?

[peppaistired]

I would like to campaign somewhere about this. I don't see the point in having so many titles around for women, and only one and simple for men: "Mr"
After all, why should people or society care if we're married, or single? They don't seem to care in the case of men, why is there still an issue with women's marital status?

While I've been saying that having options makes 'Ms' a loaded choice, and obviously from what people have been saying it is, I've never felt reluctant to use it at all. I have never worried about stigma. If someone has a problem with it, all the more reason for them to get used to it. I am happy to take the dire risk of being thought to be a man-hater/cat lady/bitter .

I don't gain or lose anythng by people knowing my title is Mrs, any more than I gain or lose from them knowing my first or second name, the colour of my eyes or whatever. They are just all part of who I am.

As it happens, my husband works in a field where use of titles is very rare. So nobody's marital status is known or defined in that context. he is visibly married - he wwears a ring, as do i.

Teacher there is a stigma. Just look at soontobesixs comment between ours. There definitely are bad connotations about Ms from most of society and that does put people off using it!
I think choosing Mrs over Dr is exactly why we need Ms. Your achievements are less important than your relationship to a man.

I think that's absolutely crucial temp - do not feel stigma, do not worry about what others think of your choice to use a certain title, and if someone has a problem with the title you've chosen for themselves, well, as you say - all the more reason for them to get used to it.

And on that note, I'm off to watch Downton, where titles abound. Yippee!

My marriage has impacted on my identity. I am stronger and more confident because I have a lovely husband who supports me in everything I do and would do anything to enable me to be the woman I want to be.

I was far less confident before I was married. I love using Mrs because it reflects the person I am now that I am part of a loving partnership.

My husband saw the strengths in me that I struggled to see.

I still don't understand why anyone thinks it's a good idea that women should be identified by whether they are "available" or not. What does that do to the collective subconscious of society?

it's such an artificial choice, though

it's like a boss decades ago saying "well you women have the choice to work and not get married, or to get married and not work. what's the problem, you have choice, what more do you want?"

the choice here is between either defining yourself by whether you are married or not (and yes, those two states are ranked by society), or be labelled divorced or a feminist (both apparently pejoratively) or someone with a stupid ugly title that no one can pronounce

it's really not a sweet shop full of joyous free choices, how lucky we women are to be able to define ourselves to the world as we like. in reality we have to choose what statement we are making about ourselves, and the assumptions we are prepared to put up with from others, where men are just taken at face value

I agree SirChen that no titles would be the ideal. I think I might start using lots of different ones for fun in the meantime. Madame Temporary sounds quite imposing .

SoonToBeSix, out of genuine interest, what do think Ms is trying to pretend? I'm not arguing, I'm really interested in perceptions of this.

Vestandknickers and how have you impacted on your husbands self esteem? What name does he use to show people that you have changed him?

I don't think anyone is saying, you should or should not think this way, Sir Chen. It's more that your position that choice is the ultimate liberation does not account for how those choices disadvantage others. How can I describe as liberation choices which oppress others? I think any class based politics would object to "choice" as the ultimate liberation. In my politics, you wouldn't enshrine an individual's right to choose to oppress any other. Right now, you are arguing a position which oppresses me, and your counter is that having no choice is oppressive. The only thing you would lose here is a choice, but what I stand to lose are things like social status and correlative access to institutions, jobs, overall life chances.

If this was such an important choice, why is it unnecessary for men?

Itsbetter,

I can only describe my own personal choice. I do not see the use of Ms as having a stigma, any more than Dr has. But yes, in my personal context I choose to use a title that describes my gender and marital status, because those are aspects of me I am entirely comfortable with. I am married rto a man, that man is married to me, our children are our children and bear our surname. that is a crucial part of who i am - not a qualification gained 20+ years ago or a title that proclaims a 'political' agenda I would prefer to show through action not words.

Personally I don't care about the stigma around Ms. I will always go by it and as I am quite young I am often the first Ms a lot of people my age have met and they are very confused!
But the stigma does put other women off. Some people have more personal pressure from men, families etc and that's what makes it not a free choice!

I wish I could wave a wand and have us all called Ms (or Mrs or Mistress, not picky) once we turned 18 and for it to have "always" been that way.

Anyone arguing for how their honorific is something which celebrates their marriage, why do your husbands not need this? Why are they not campaigning for their name to demonstrate the importance of their marriage to their identity?

When we got married, we discussed titles and change of name - choices from change to my name, double barrel each way round, change to his, new name entirely. We chose the 'conventional': family name as being my husband's family name. There were no assumptions, that was our choice, based on a variety of things, some deep, some entirely trivial (double barrelled was clearly absurd, for example). So I never feel like I have unquestioning taken on an identity that is to do with 'being married', we chose a family identity together. You may just see the conventional choice and assume a lack of choice ever given IYSWIM?

Titles are obviously much more important in the UK, but you have a lot more titles than we do (Lord, Lady, Sir, Dame, etc.); perhaps that has something to do with it

I think it's more to do with the British horror that someone could be addressed as something as naked as their first name.

I read the first few posts where people were suggesting dumping titles altogether, thinking "Eh? So we would just bark out their surname, like in school or prison". It literally didn't occur to me that people could be addressed by there first name

I do know the difference between their and there. i just slipped that in to amuse pedants on a dull Sunday night

Teacher you have put the political agenda on Ms (that's stigmatising it, which you claim doesn't happen) It actually means the same as Mr for women. So why choose to be Mrs? Do you think being happy as a woman and happy in your marriage means you must go by Mrs? It does not mean you are uncomfortable in that position to not go by Mrs which you have repeatedly implied.

SHEEN!

WHAT do you think you are doing, you grammar llama??!

Something like that??

Yes, yes, yes! I would be very happy to see Miss and Mrs disappear completely. I don't think Ms has strong feminist overtones, even if it did what could be bad about equality for women?

No, I CHOOSE Mrs because, of ther titles available to me, the way that Mrs defines me is the one that I am currently happiest.

(I have been Dr Oldname, Dr Newname as well as Miss and Ms Oldname in part professional lives)

Why is double barrelled absurd?
If it is a free choice why does nearly everyone choose to follow the tradition?
People always say they discuss it but then ALWAYS come to the conclusion that the woman should take the mans name and go by Mrs. Only she should change. This discussion and conveniently hating your maiden is always used as some kind of excuse. Why do you need the excuse? Why do so many come to the exact same conclusion?

A question for those who object to Ms because you don't like how it sounds - would you be happy for all adult women to be called Mrs regardless of marital status? Because it doesn't really matter which title is used, just that there's only one.

most of the women i work with use ms. a handful use dr. there is one woman whose email signature says:

jane smith (mrs)

which is unusual tbh

Yy Borka.

(Though I'd vote for Mistress as the title - Mister and Mistress, abbreviated Mr and Ms, if I was queen could vote)