Would you get rid of the titles "Miss" and "Mrs" and use just "Ms" if you could?

[peppaistired]

I would like to campaign somewhere about this. I don't see the point in having so many titles around for women, and only one and simple for men: "Mr"
After all, why should people or society care if we're married, or single? They don't seem to care in the case of men, why is there still an issue with women's marital status?

Sirchenjin- why do you think it's a good idea for women to be identified in relation to their relationship with men?

Hell no!! I hate Ms, it sounds so old! I love Miss

Hmm, I think absolute freedom of choice is a neoliberal rather than feminist politics. Feminism is about class based analysis, and being female + making a choice does not always produce feminist, i.e. women supporting - choices. Many women make choices which profoundly disadvantage other women as women, and such actions can't be described as feminist. Women in this government, women supporting the welfare cuts, would be excellent examples of this

The number of threads we get on here about how a woman's choice of title isn't respected by others anyway - when Christmas cards start arriving the threads will start. Women who choose to keep their own surname and be a Ms are so often addressed as Mrs DH-name.

Hak - have you read my posts? At no point have I said that I think it's a good/bad/indifferent idea for women to be identified in relation to their relationship with men. What I have said - several times - is that I believe in choice, and what I can't and won't do is speak for other women.

I have the choice between a gender / marital status neutral title (Dr) and oner which proclaims both (Mrs). I have to use a title as my current school's policy is for teachers to be addressed ast Title+Surname.

I did delberate about thuis long and hard. I have ended up as Mrs, because I don't think that a genuinely neutral title is available: Dr comes with baggage / meaning, so does Ms, and on the whole I prefer my title to have 'sraightforward fact' meaning. Mrs states two facts: I am female and married, rather than the 'implied' meanings of Dr (I am a medc / a show off / too scary to talk to) or Ms (still has strong feminist overtones at the moment).

The majority of my pupils call me 'Miss' anyway. One syllable, easier to say.

So do you think that any choice a woman makes is a feminist one? And that it actually doesn't matter if it impacts badly on other women?

for women to make those choices freely you have to first break down the structures that make the choices loaded in terms of how society interprets them and upholds the oppression of women

of course, once that structure is broken down those choices will no longer be relevant

"Ms (still has strong feminist overtones at the moment)"

do you think parents would react badly to it then?

I should say, by the way, say that I am a feminist with a small f - someone who believes that a woman is absolutely equal to a man. But I am not a politically active Feminist, and Ms still has tha political connotation. I am happier to be Mrs - marrioed, female, and showing therough my actions that I am as at least as good at what I do as a man could be.

SirChen I do use the Ms option (obviously ) but I don't consider that problem solved. I'm not sure we're thinking of the same problem.

If you're providing choices for all women to make freely, where is my choice to live in a society that is gender equal wrt titles? As I said, if you want to argue for the status quo that is fine. Arguing for the status quo as something that provides all women with a fair choice, or claiming it is feminist, doesn't make much sense, to me anyway.

I don't lose sleep over this but if the question is posed..

Teacher it saddens me that you let the stigma define you.
Ms shouldn't have negative connotations! The more people who use the less stigma it will have.

Pumpkin, no, I am unhappy with the imnplication about me and my identity, not about another's response to me IYSWIM. The reaction of parents is way down my list - as i now work in a very MC school, i suspect them might like it if i used Dr. But colleagues / children might not, and I myself would find myself pretentious.....

Teacher, my dc's head teacher is a Ms, it's been really interesting to see how many other members of staff have felt more free to use the title now she is there.

I think you have got the wring end f the stick, Sir Chen. It's not about saying you can't be trusted to choose, it's about saying some of the choices you make disadvantage women as a class however well they work out for you individually. In this case, removing your individual choice may be counter to your preference but it wouldn't disadvantage you. It does disadvantage women to be identified through their relationships with men, though

oh ok, it was a genuine question i wasn't trying to get at you. it's just the way you talked about Dr as a title suggested it was about how other people respond (i assumed parents, but obviously colleagues and pupils too)

Outself has put it just right

I prefer to be Mrs - and to show by my actions that I am in no way defined by gender and marital status. So in an way to use the cocventional title and surprise through my actions, rather than the other way round. I like being female and married - it is part of who I am. Like taking another name on marriage, taking a title that represents my marriage is something I am happy with. not because it represent 'subjugation to a man', but because it creates a new famly identity that i am very comfortable with - and equal within.

Well, it makes perfect sense to me temp - so on that we will have to agree to differ. I suppose the difference is that I don't define myself by any form of title, and I don't feel defined, and so arguing for the removal of Miss and Mrs to simply leave Ms doesn't push things forward in the direction I would like to go, which is that we are not defined by gender based/professional/marital title.

However, I believe firmly in choice and so (as I've already said) I don't believe in one set of ideals or political viewpoint dictating to others how they should and shouldn't think.

You may feel equal within your marriage but you and your husband are not equally associated or identified by it, in a public sense. In terms of the public realm, your marriage has not impacted his identity in any way meaningful to the institutions which require you to disclose your marital status, but not him

"However, I believe firmly in choice and so (as I've already said) I don't believe in one set of ideals or political viewpoint dictating to others how they should and shouldn't think."
Even if that choice is damaging to others?

Why do you want strangers to know you are married? What do you gain from that?

No definitely not I love being Mrs , I hate Ms it sounds pretentious.

I don't believe that choice is damaging to others. I understand you disagree.

Itsbetter, sorry, failed to reply. It isn't a stigma, or i don't see it as such. It is simply a layer of meanng - like using Dr has layers of meaning (factual: I have a PhD; wrongly factual: I am not a medic; by implication: I am clever). I choose not to use Ms or Dr because of those layers of meaning. Others may positively choose either title because they feel those layers of meaning are something they feel are useful in defining them.