Would you get rid of the titles "Miss" and "Mrs" and use just "Ms" if you could?

[peppaistired]

I would like to campaign somewhere about this. I don't see the point in having so many titles around for women, and only one and simple for men: "Mr"
After all, why should people or society care if we're married, or single? They don't seem to care in the case of men, why is there still an issue with women's marital status?

re the forms if they want to know what gender you are, they should just ask and spare us the dance of the pointless "titles".

Agree with this. I'd feel it was much more equal if women's martial status wasn't obvious from their name.

Ms would be an important step forward imo.

But Mrs HerFirstName /Married Name is the traditional style for divorced women. Mrs Hisfirstname/married name means married.

Agree Hakluyt. Interestingly, my mum - in some ways someone who could be hailed as a feminist pioneer, as she was among the very first women to do a subject traditionally reserved for men at an elite university - was until recently offended by anyone who addressed her as Mrs HerFirstName / married name, because my dad is still alive.

She has unbent a little, and no longer minds, though her SIL, my aunt, addressing her as Ms did have her ranting down the phone at me about whether said aunt was losing her marbles, as she ought to know that my mum has been married to her brother for 50 years...

It is a generational thing, in many ways. I choose to be addressed as Mrs, but do not mind Ms or Dr. I expect DD will be happy to be addressed as Ms, as I would expect that it will be the norm in 10 years time, with Mrs seeming as archaic to her as Mrs Husband's name / last name seems to me.

Is there any evidence to show more people are using Ms? I wonder if there are any publicly available statistics.

I have a suspicion that Ms, while more commonly known, isn't becoming more widely used.

How would you collect those stats though Ponty. Pre-marriage I was called both Miss and Ms depending on what I'd told each bank, credit card, store card etc

Are titles on passports or driving licences. They'd be best I suppose.

I think it would depend on whether you are looking at unmarried or married women choosing to be Ms. I am sure that more unmarried women are using Ms instead of Miss. No idea about Ms instead of Mrs though, but I assume that would likely follow the trend of women not taking their husband's name

Well, my driving licence still says Miss, as I've had it since I was 17, that's 30 years ago and I have been using Ms for most of that, so it would be misleading. I looked at changing it when I renewed my photocard last year but it seemed like a lot of hassle, same with the bank account I've had since the same age. No titles on passports I don't think.

heartisaspade I'm the same!

I got married donkeys years ago, becoming Mrs HusbandsFamilyName. I might not make that choice now, but that's what I did then.

I've recently got my PhD, so I'm entitled to be Dr HusbandsFamilyName. But I worry that (outside work, where it's relevant), it sounds a bit pretentious to be Dr just to have a non-gendered non-marital-status-indicating title. So sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.

Not that I'm saying you are pretentious, just to clarify! Just that I am being overly self deprecating and need to stand a bit taller and stop worrying.

I'm the same as you Spindelina, I'm especially careful around "real" doctors, because I feel like I'm usurping their status!

That being said I've been Dr Chachah for 5 years now, and I find myself getting less and less self-conscious about it. It's just a habit.

my mum is a gp and my dad teases her that she isn't a "real" doctor - because he has an MD and she doesn't, so her title is purely honorific

I am Ms and I would happily get rid of Miss MRs. Other countries have managed to use only one title without society falling to ruin.

I also notice all those that "love being Mrs". Never use Master for young men, why is it only women who have to tell everyone their business that way?

I love how easy it seems for some people on here to give up something they don't like and don't want but that is important to someone else. You want something, but you want to make me make the sacrifice.

SDTG, it's a vanishingly small probablity that there'd be a government edict outlawing Mrs and Miss for women already using those titles!

I can understand you not wanting to change your current title, just as I don't want to change mine. But if when you got married there was no "Mrs" option (or if all adult women were already Mrs or Madam), do you think it would've upset you then?

If it were abolished tomorrow do you think one day your daughters would say, "oh I really wish I had a way of announcing my marital status to strangers? besides my wedding ring No you like it because it is a sexist convention in out society. I wouldn't be insulting you by not calling you married and just calling you a person.

Men seem to get on fine with only one title. The fact that there are three for women IS sexist. I realize you like it but it doesn't change the fact that it is sexist. So yes I would take that form you because that traditions like many other sexist (or racist) traditions hurts everyone.

If it had never existed, then I'm sure I wouldn't have missed it. And I do know there isn't going to be a law outlawing Mrs - but it still irks me how easily some people dismiss my preference, and knowing that some people would outlaw it tomorrow, if they could, without a second thought for me.

So what if, starting tomorrow, all women turning 18 become Ms and that title remains with them throughout their lives, as Mr does with men? Then all other women are sent a form and can choose to change to Ms or stay with Mrs/Miss?Would that make sense to you?

Yes - perfect sense. I'd be happy to be one of the dying-out dinosaurs, and it is the sort of gradual phasing-out that should make the change as easy as possible.

SDTG I don't think is a case of not a second thought for you/people who wanted to keep the current system. I'd care a lot and sympathise with those who found it upsetting. Many of the women I know and love would be horrified, and I'd hate the idea of taking something away from someone when they associate it with love and their own identity. Those who would maintain the status quo are also prepared to rule out the preference of others who want to change it though, perhaps without a second thought for them. So either side could be irked. As I said though I really would care; like so many things we have been born into and lived with, women become attached to their titles without any sexist intention. That is only part of the wider picture though, it still reflects a sexist tradition.

X post, but phasing out sounds good and realistically is the way it will happen, if it happens.

I got my daughters passports when they were each babies. The title in their passports is "Ms".

On an, I believe, linked topic: I once knew a conveyancing lawyer, and he said that on the document that transfers ownership of a house to a male/female couple (to own it jointly and equally), the man's name is always put first. He once tried putting the woman's name first, and his supervising lawyer changed it so that the man's name was first, and the woman's last.