Discussion with female friend re Ched

[HenriettaTurkey]

So I posted an article on fb, with a link to an article on Ched Evans and the myth of male sexuality.

With it I wrote 'it's very simple. If she's drunk and you have sex with her, it's rape. That's the law'.

Several friends responded positively, saying such things as 'if in doubt assume the answer's no', 'it would be easier to move on if he at least acknowledged his act' etc

Then a female friend came on and, through various posts said I was being ridiculous as this meant that no-one could ever have a drink and have sex again.

After banging my head against the wall I realised you lovely folk would be able to help me construct a coherent response that doesn't rely on my usual, possibly unhelpful, sarcasm.

Help!

Damsilli, I am at a loss to understand where you thought I was saying that the jury were wrong. What I was commenting on was some of the totally illogical thoughts about capability and culpability which have come up on this thread, and have been again brought up since my comment and will be brought up on every thread about rape ever.

However, thanks for your comments. I'll take them under advisement.

No, a woman cannot commit rape. Unless a person has a penis, they cannot rape. They can sexually assault, but not rape.

Ched Evans has served half of his time in prison, and will continue to serve the rest of his time in the community. Unless he messes up and is recalled to prison,

A woman can sexually assault a man who is too drunk to have capacity to consent to sexual contact, if that was your question.

I really hope you aren't saying "it's only rape if someone other than the victim and the accused can testify" because that's really a license to rape, don't you think?

Always comes round to this doesnt it.

Yes, if a man woke up one morning in a strange room, having pissed themselves as they were so drunk, with physical evidence that they had had sexual intercourse with a woman, of course they could prosecute for sexual assault (not rape in uk, no penis. Different laws in different countries with that).

Weird how few men are claiming this has happened to them though, even if they brazened it out as a "positive"

Perhaps there are just fewer female sexual offenders? Though i guess you'd say i'm being sexist to suggest that?

Yonic, and god forbid you have more than one rapist, so one female witness, versus multiple male witnesses

Ched Evans was found GUILTY of RAPE in a court of law, something that most victims of rape will never ever see.

And STILL we have people saying yeah but no but if she's too drunk he must be too drunk too (huh?), that a female's testimony shouldn't really count for too much if she's a victim of a sex crime etc etc blah.

Well happily, much of society, the police forces and other people in authority agree hence Rotherham, Jimmy Saville, the various childens homes scandals, various politicians, and all the rest of it. The commonality here is that large numbers of people (mainly female) were raped and no-one gave a toss because it was "his word against hers" and anyway they seem pretty unreliable to me.

Hopefully that attitude is changing slowly what with everything that's come out. Well I hope so anyway

And, just to round off the point: that kind of sexual assault can carry the same sentence as rape.

I often wonder how these people feel about male victims of sexual violence. Whether like that author chap they see females being abused as not too much of an issue "it's not like it's 12 year old boys" or whatever he said.

Clearly the system is set up against victims of sexual violence and most don't report what happened to them. Clearly this is a problem.

Clearly while we have people saying "oh well if she was too drunk he must've been too" and "oh well his word against hers what can you do?" none of this is going to change.

No, Puffins. We've got mixed up somewhere. I just thought your dismissal of my first post was wrong.

"It's only something if something totally illogical".

No. Not your post. Other people's ideas.

Okey doke Puffins.

Just out of interest, do you think there is room differences of opinion here? Or is there just one right answer. There are many people on FWR that are far better versed than me, but I think I'm asking if you believe in moral absolutism. It seems to me that most feminists must do.

I think I struggle because I suspect I'm more into moral relativism.

Hoping someone more educated than I might pick this up!

Hi DS

Could you comment on this question? Thanks.

I really hope you aren't saying "it's only rape if someone other than the victim and the accused can testify" because that's really a license to rape, don't you think?