Amal Alamuddin has changed her name professionally

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

I'm actually disappointed. Her choice blah blah but honestly. Successful women who change their names professionally always strike me as either stupid or coerced and I'm sure that's unfair I'm not really but honestly why be so committed to the concept of the obliteration of the unmarried self that you allow it to impact on your professional reputation and renown?

i certainly don't think it is a case of stupidity (well, except in possibly a teeny tiny minority of cases)

there is coercion and there is coercion. i don't think anyone is talking about women being physically or verbally threatened into changing their names

but as beccajoh notes it can be made very awkward for women who choose not to change their names (not always, but often). you often hear of the husband or his family being personally offended by the woman's decision not to change her name, and that decision not being respected (birthday cards addressed to Mrs Husband'ssurname etc). difficulties entering and leaving the country if it's not somewhere where mothers traditionally have different names to their children etc

i'm just a bit surprised as i thought her tradition would be to keep her father's name.

I didn't change my name on marriage - if DP had wanted to change his name to mine I wouldn't have had an issue with it - I disagree with the practice currently because it is only something that applies to women. When men start doing it then it actually is a choice, not a cultural expectation applying only to women.

It also is a harking back to the time when women were defined by who their father was, then by who their husband was, as they were simply not expected to have any existence outside their male relatives.

miggsie i have been to a number of weddings recently where they included the "who gives this woman...?" "i do" (from the father). i was very surprised i have to say

Angelos they are talking crap. Titles are not legally conferred so call yourself Mrs, miss or Ms as you prefer.
Ask them why they believe that? I'd be interested to know.

I never said any woman who changes her name is stupid or coerced. I was referring specifically to highly respected, well known professional women for whom a name change could have an impact on their professional identy and reputation.
By coerced I mean 'persuaded' by social pressures, family, spouse's distress etc. I know women who have changed their names because it's easier than dealing with the argument - that's coercion imo.

Loads of women I love and respect have changed their names. They aren't stupid.

I get cards from DH's relatives addressed to 'Mrs HisName'. They also send DD cards and presents adressed to 'Miss HisName' even though her surname is actually 'MyName-HisName.' It feels like they're trying to erase my identity.

We also get a lot of comments about DH 'letting' me keep my name and 'letting' DD have both our names. These comments come from people who approve as well as those who don't.

Purpleroxy is right about lots of names. Lots of very valid reasons not to take a mans name, but also other issues. Like practicality. Calling your kids both names of husband and wife is only good once. What next? 4 surnames?

Does anyone here have daughter with both surnames? What will happen?

Ugh, I'm disappointed too.

I've waded into this debate many times so I'll try to avoid getting massively sucked in. But when a woman changes her name to her husband's, it is unequal - how on earth can it not be? One person's name gets to stay and be the name of the family. One gets ditched.

However much the woman feels she is, or in fact is, making a free choice, when she does that she is reflecting and perpetuating the deep-seated, often not necessarily even conscious, idea that men are more important. She doesn't have to consciously think men are more important. Whatever she thinks, that is the message she's sending - to her sons or daughters, to her pupils, to her colleagues, everyone.

And that is how the message of inequality gets passed on (among a million other ways). Why does that matter? Because deep down inside men and women, that inequality of value is what allows other, worse, less symbolic, more real inequalities to perpetuate. Like the shocking levels of male on female DV and abuse, boys' attitude to rape, unequal pay, unequal shares of housework etc etc that hold women back, hurt women, keep women in their place. Those things happen because more value is placed on men and deep down men and women know that, and that is what feminism should fight. If you are a feminist I don't see how you can be happy with perpetuating that unequal message, however symbolically.

If that wasn't the case, and it was 50-50 men taking women's names too, I wouldn't think it was sexist (though I personally think changing your name is a ridiculous, pointless and outdated hassle and something I would never do).

But it's not like that, is it. It's almost exclusively women who do it.

And it's often not a free choice anyway. Women often do it because they are worried about being seen as strident ballbreaking feminists, because of pressure from family, because their groom mopes and complains if they propose not doing it. I've seen strong, professional women who would do better to keep their names cave into that pressure, even when they didn't really want to. No, that's not coercion or force, but it's not a fair, free choice either when that pressure doesn't apply in the other direction.

If it doesn't matter, ask yourself what percentage of men you know would be happy to do it, and why that percentage is so small? If it doesn't matter, ask yourself if it would be OK if every time a black person married a white person, it was traditional and expected for the black person to take the white person's name, because traditionally white people held all the power, and 90% of black people just happily went along with that? Would they do that?

Of course it matters and IMO she is doing us all a disservice by sending out an unequal message. Of course it's her "choice". But feminism does not equal any old choice. Feminism is about equality.

I think women should feel entirely free to choose whether to take their husband's name or retain their father's name (whatever other surname their parents gave them). There is no feminist issue here other than free choice.

And on a less ranty note, I've noticed that when very high-profile/famous, successful women change their name on marriage, the marriage is often short-lived.

I fail to see how anyone who has made the success of their career as Amal has can be labelled as stupid - that's the only stupid thing I can see here. And why assume that she has been coerced, even in the way you define it? I agree that changing name to avoid conflict is coercion but I don't see why that should be assumed here - I know George is older than her but he's hardly a dinosaur. And yes, she is Lebanese - what's the tradition/societal norm there (if there is one), is it to change name or not?

And, as I said before, I fail to understand what the negative impact of this could be - she has built her reputation prior to her marriage, so she can hardly be said to be riding on her husband's coattails.

damsilli i would assume the parents of the grandchildren would be able to decide which of their surnames (if any) would best suit their children

it's only when people are wedded to the idea of the man's surname being the default that it is a problem

From the OP - Successful women who change their names professionally always strike me as either stupid or coerced...

Followed by - I never said any woman who changes her name is stupid or coerced.

Now I am confused. Unless you mean that only some of them are. And given that you don't know them or their motivations, it is an odd thing to say.

i think it's pretty clear that the OP means some of them are, and she stands by that opinion, and she knows some women for whom that is the case

you might disagree with that, but i don't think the OP is being contradictory

DH and I made the choices that were right for us. Frankly, naming the next generation is not our problem, or our business. DD (hyphenated surname) will make her own decisions.

There are lots of different ways it could ve done. If DH and I both had hyphenated surnames, we would have found a way to combine them into a manageable surname. We'd probably combine the halves of our names that sounded best, or have each used the name of the parent of the same sex (ie DDs surname would have been MyMumsSurname-HisDadsSurname.)

what I don't like about all this is the assumption by some that because she has fallen in love with and married a very high-profile man, she now shouldn't make decisions for herself, as the rest of us are free to do, she has to do so for all of womankind. And to me that is a very slippery slope - if she has a baby, would it be right for the breastfeeders of the world to tell her that she should bf her baby, otherwise she is doing women/babies/breastfeeding itself a disservice? I certainly hope not.

Lots of reasons to do with the past, but the best thing for the future is for each family to make its own choice. So no Mrs Cockhead, for example . More men with womans name would be good, but it's not for us to criticise when it's the mans name that is the family name. Thats one option.

For me long clumsy double barelled names are a bit silly. But again, its a personally choice. Your children don't choose though so choose carefully

I must have misunderstood this ---> Successful women who change their names professionally always strike me as either stupid or coerced

Excellent post Voyager - sums up the main objections perfectly. Your example of how ridiculous it would be if black people had to take white partner's names is a great one

Petula, no, not contradictory then. Just judgemental, given that she cannot know the reasons behind any such decision. Clever people can make bad decisions (not saying this one is). It does not make them stupid.

I defend her right to call herself what she likes, and send out what message she likes. What I won't accept is that it isn't important or that it can be a feminist choice.

Plenty of women perpetuate sexism and inequality. I just hoped that a brilliant high-profile successful lawyer would be one of the ones not to. That she would be a feminist and help equality move forward. Hence, disappointed. I'm not saying women should be banned from behaving in ways that disappoint me. But I'm allowed to comment and argue that it's an anti-feminist act.

I have not read the whole thread but I find this extremely disappointing. I try not to openly judge people, and keep my opinion to myself unless asked, but I very much disapprove the changing your name thing. Personally I did not considered it for a moment in either of my two marriages.

(When my MIL in my marriage said to me "oh that's OK you can be Dr X as your professional name and Mrs Y in your private life" I told her I am Dr X wherever I am, because that is my name. She never really liked me after that and first H told me years later that she was very unhappy with me about this attitude, which she fond in some way rejecting of her son).

IT IS HER CHOICE! She has the right to choose and I cannot believe people are 'disappointed' in someone they don't know over THEIR choice.

She chose the name. Doesn't make her any less successful, intelligent or less of a person.

JEYSUS! This sort of shit makes me sick! We are supposed to be supporting peoples right to make a choice, not bullying them into doing what we think is right! You don't like it, boo hoo. You don't have to live with it.

puds, not a single person on here has asked just who she thinks she is and suggested that she should be ashamed of her decision. Of course it's her choice. But for some of us, that's not the end of the debate - it throws up all sorts of questions about marriage, gender equality/inequality, the reasons why people make decisions about relationships, identity, priorities. This would be a very dull place if every thread just consisted of 'oh well, her/his choice, mustn't judge'.