Amal Alamuddin has changed her name professionally

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

I'm actually disappointed. Her choice blah blah but honestly. Successful women who change their names professionally always strike me as either stupid or coerced and I'm sure that's unfair I'm not really but honestly why be so committed to the concept of the obliteration of the unmarried self that you allow it to impact on your professional reputation and renown?

I do agree with Novice. We have to be sensitive and keep debate among us women, disclosive (is that a word?) discursive and supportive. That doesn't mean we cannot challenge BUT there is assertion and there is aggression and it does seem like they are getting a little muddled here. :)

For me the point Novice makes about women's careers taking a back seat to their husband's resonates with the name thing - even our identity takes a back seat when we marry. And even if we don't change our name, we still have to deal with it in lots of ways - interesting conversations with the bank, sighing as you get another Christmas card to Mr & Mrs, being asked to justify your decision. Dh had none of that to deal with.

I don't think there is anything wrong with precipitating feelings of discomfort and I am happy as such to own my own dissonance. But not everybody is familiar with the feminist arguments (I am imagining young women coming across them for the first time) and we don't want to chase them off. It is hard to gauge intention on a screen and it doesn't hurt to go that little bit further to convey warmth, even if you disagree with the POV.

I don't see that as an approach confined to women either and I would say the same to a debate populated by men. I refuse to pander to the gendering of unconditional positive regard ;)

It's so great that so many people are interested in this topic. There's a survey going on at the moment about what people do with their surnames after marriage/civil partnerships. If anyone wants to have their say and fill it in, the link is here: www.surveymonkey.com/s/surnames

Chunderella

I didn't feel attacked speaking personally and enjoyed debating with you. :)

I do think that when peoples decisions feel as if they are coming under attack (even if that isn't what is actually happening) they shut down to vigorous debate and personalise it right back atcha.

There is also that whole set of standards that we set women up to meet and one of them is the enhanced betrayal we might feel when a women is perceived to attack us. We tolerate if far less.

We expect women to be more 'supportive' and tolerant of our bad choices and failure to take an arguments points on board (as happened on the thread) than we do men.

Not right or fair.

I also think it is important to remember that the feminists on here (and other forums) tend to come from a place of wanting women to do well. Their arguments and views come from a wellspring of support. Even when things get heated, that is still apparent.

On my first marriage I changed my name - because it didn't occur to me not to. I do recall getting wound up by all the various bits of paperwork involved in name changing. Just after divorce my first H suggested I no longer had the right to use the name I'd used for 10 years and he expected that I should go back to my maiden name! Perhaps he thought he was just lending it to me!! By then I was known professionally by my (his) surname and I just started to use Miss as my title.

By the time I married a second time it was even more important to keep 'my' name and have remained with it. Our children have their dad's surname (DH2) as it's more distinctive than mine, but all are content with me being the odd one out.

It's about personal choice. There again maybe I'd have been ok about another change if it was about marrying Mr G Clooney - as I'd also be able to afford to pay a PA to do all the paperwork.

@ your dh *manciepancie

Just another example of how men (NAM) think names don't really belong to women but just denote the man they are most closely linked to at any point.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this NAMALT thing. Sorry if this is a bit of a derail, but it seems a bit like saying Muslims bomb skyscrapers (NAM). As a liberal I feel inherently uncomfortable with these generalizations - and yet they seem perfectly acceptable here. Yonic who are these men that feel like that (your statement above) and why do you think it's ok to try ascribe such a thing to a class with the most cursory of caveats? We wouldn't accept it of women.

Women are submissive (NAW) or whatever.

I agree with that overarching premise Mrs C, but it strikes me it can be difficult to present an overall case that includes both 'don't stereotype women' and 'we've identified this as a trend amongst men'. Also, for the case in point, do we think Yonic has a valid and clearly identifiable trait that is inherently male such that men can be separated from women? I'm not sure. Surely the patriarchy encourages this example (of women being known by their association to a man) rather than 'men think...'.

Personally, I think it's a practice that opens any discussion to rather irrelevant and unnecessary polarization.... Like my comments actually. Sorry!

what buffy said

plus there are some interesting pieces here and here about where the "not all men" caveat has come from and why it is used in the way it is

I will happily rephrase to:

Just another example of how patriarchy thinks names don't really belong to women but just denote the man they are most closely linked to at any point.
P

I'm broadly in agreement with all that. And, no, one aspect of a group's behaviour is never proof of the existence of other, often conflicting, behaviours. Every group is, after all, both hugely diverse and broadly overlapping of other groups too.

No, no innate evil. But violence? Not sure. I think there is some innate violence in us all.

I think buffy might mean no innate violence above and beyond that of women.

It really isn't that big of a deal that she changed her name.

I don't know what the big fuss is all about.

Can a woman get married and change her name and not be subject to The World's scrutiny?

JESUS CHRIST do people have nothing better to do than question the choices of other people?!